The game is more dead than it was pre-3.1

[Magis]

Again, I gloss over a lot for the sake of brevity. Just look at what wow did right in WotLK and MoP, SE needs to do that. Obviously wow has it problems, but one problem wow has addressed very well is keeping multiple types of players satisfied.

Totally agree. I liked the Argent tournament and Timeless Isle (sans griefing) was more enjoyable for me than Diadem was.

For what SE copied from WoW, it was the later half of WoW's life, where Blizzard made very dumb decisions. Vanilla and TBC is where WoW made all it's subscriber counts and SE could have looked at their open world environment. I hear WotLK was as good, but the subs levelled off there, and I quit before it cause I saw where the game was heading after TBC.

[Teryaani]

For what SE copied from WoW, it was the later half of WoW's life, where the company made very dumb descions. Vanilla and TBC is where WoW made all it's subscriber counts. I hear WotLK was as good, but the counts levelled off their, and I quit before it cause I saw where the game was heading after TBC.

WoW had moments of smart design even in the later years, they were surrounded by terrible decisions, but they were there. People complained about the grind that the argent tournament was, but I have fonder memories of it than I do of the beast tribe dailies which serve the same purpose (vanity awards and rep with a racial faction). Maybe it's rose colored glasses <shrug>

I would take WoW's vanity pet battle system over LoV in a heartbeat and Timeless Isle was a fun playground most of the time.

[zosia]

For what SE copied from WoW, it was the later half of WoW's life, where Blizzard made very dumb decisions. Vanilla and TBC is where WoW made all it's subscriber counts and SE could have looked at their open world environment. I hear WotLK was as good, but the subs levelled off there, and I quit before it cause I saw where the game was heading after TBC.

Well, I honestly think triple A MMO's need an lfr to survive these days. That's why we needed alex normal. Naturally, something like lfr offends raiders, so Blizz made it up to them with little perks. The best ilvl, bonus bosses, distinct heroic/mythic gear sets, titles, mounts, exclusive mats, accelerated legendary gear progression, etc etc etc.

We don't see a fraction of those rewards for raiding in this game and yet we are supposed to choke down a lfr version, the fastest vertical progression I have ever seen, and BiS weapons being completely unrelated to raiding.

Wow struck a balance with giving the casual crowd a lot more content while giving raiders more rewards too. SE has yet to find that balance and it's causing content to have very short lifespans.