starting to lose interest in this game sadly

[NoahArks]

snip

Did you know that the prices to keep a server running isn't that much? This counts the same for game servers. Let's say there are 200k active monthly paying players atm. They all pay 15 bucks (not considering legacy) and we just think of the earnings they make with just the sub: 200000*15= 3000000. Means they'll make 3mil already with just 200k active subscribers. Servers costs total might be like 1%-3% of that. Meaning they made 97% in that month. Now lets take off the labor costs and say they earn 3000-4000 each, cause that sounds reasonable if you work in a large scale development team. I don't know how big the team is, but let's say 15 people. That's another 15% that goes off. Meaning they still made 82%. An update won't cost a lot, so I'll leave that out. That still means they have a profit of 2.46mil. Just that one month with paying for a 30 day subscription if there are 200k playing. Though. A few weeks back it was established that the current active accounts is more than double of 200k. Now if every one of the 200k people have one extra retainer they've made another 200k.

In the end the cash shop is just a extra money grab that the game doesn't even need.

[DPZ2]

Now lets take off the labor costs and say they earn 3000-4000 each, cause that sounds reasonable if you work in a large scale development team.

Why do folks think only the developers at a company deserve payment? What about the marketing folks: artists, financiers, accounting? What about server maintenance crews: network and system administrators?

Add to that the fact that $48,000 per year in labor costs per developer is an extremely low-ball figure that would likely result in your development team abandoning ship for the Next Big Thing pretty quickly.

You failed to incorporate other costs such as office rental, transportation and shipping costs, payments to Sony for PSN access, payments to the IP service providers, payments to keep up with debt incurred before a single sale was ever made, not to mention the shareholders.

Game companies are in business to Make Money, nothing more. If their product Pleases the Public, so much the better.

[karateorangutang]

Why do folks think only the developers at a company deserve payment? What about the marketing folks: artists, financiers, accounting? What about server maintenance crews: network and system administrators?

Add to that the fact that $48,000 per year in labor costs per developer is an extremely low-ball figure that would likely result in your development team abandoning ship for the Next Big Thing pretty quickly.

You failed to incorporate other costs such as office rental, transportation and shipping costs, payments to Sony for PSN access, payments to the IP service providers, payments to keep up with debt incurred before a single sale was ever made, not to mention the shareholders.

Game companies are in business to Make Money, nothing more. If their product Pleases the Public, so much the better.

This guy gets it.

[Kaurie]

This guy gets it.

Sort of, he listed a handful of other people that need wages too and brought up some other expenses. It doesn't mean they aren't making loads off of our subs already, and that they don't really need the cash shop purchases. They are a cash grab, because yes they are in the business of making money.

They company, in business of making money, will charge as much as they can to make money. The consumers, in the business of saving money, will try to limit how much they can charge us. Consumers do this through consumer feedback (like this thread) and consumer demand. Rolling over and saying they want to make money, so here take it, is very poor consumer behavior and not at all how a capitalist economy works.

[karateorangutang]

Sort of, he listed a handful of other people that need wages too and brought up some other expenses. It doesn't mean they aren't making loads off of our subs already, and that they don't really need the cash shop purchases. They are a cash grab, because yes they are in the business of making money.

They company, in business of making money, will charge as much as they can to make money. The consumers, in the business of saving money, will try to limit how much they can charge us. Consumers do this through consumer feedback (like this thread) and consumer demand. Rolling over and saying they want to make money, so here take it, is very poor consumer behavior and not at all how a capitalist economy works.

At the end of the day it's still a business. If the game isn't making a sizable profit then funding will end. The goal of a business is to make profit, and customer satisfaction is just one means to meet that end goal. However, for whatever reason it's often supposed that it's the other way around by the customer base. If the game doesn't make profit then it will be shut down in favor of another model.

The problem isn't that threads like this exist, but that the numbers don't agree with a thread like this. Any large corporation is not gonna roll out a huge amount of man hours because of a survey. The one and only reason they would do that is a reaction to a downward trend. This game has not hit that point in it's life. It's too early and its still easy to grab players that are new to the game with easy promotions. For every long term subscriber there are many more new players, maybe they only sub for a few months but the collective mass of people playing 1-6 months more than likely earns SE a greater profit then the one guy who plays for 1-2 years.

When WoW went heavy cash shop a few years ago it was a reaction to the trend and a bid to get more new players. Why you ask? It's to get a fast and new player base. The man hours and money you would have to spend to make a long time player happy is significantly more than the amount you would need to pay to get a new player to be happy with a game.

It's a numbers game at the end of the day.

[Kaurie]

At the end of the day it's still a business. If the game isn't making a sizable profit then funding will end. The goal of a business is to make profit, and customer satisfaction is just one means to meet that end goal. However, for whatever reason it's often supposed that it's the other way around by the customer base. If the game doesn't make profit then it will be shut down in favor of another model.

The problem isn't that threads like this exist, but that the numbers don't agree with a thread like this. Any large corporation is not gonna roll out a huge amount of man hours because of a survey. The one and only reason they would do that is a reaction to a downward trend. This game has not hit that point in it's life. It's too early and its still easy to grab players that are new to the game with easy promotions. For every long term subscriber there are many more new players, maybe they only sub for a few months but the collective mass of people playing 1-6 months more than likely earns SE a greater profit then the one guy who plays for 1-2 years.

I agree with all of that, and it's not contradictory to what I said. The point is that prices are fixated on a balancing point between two conflicting interests (consumers demand to lower prices and company's demand to raise prices). It is a consumer role in this scenario to voice up if you find the prices too high, and to make actions with your money.

We already pay a sub fee, which I am sure easily gives them their profits. The added costs through the cash shop are considered by some to be poor business practice. We have two methods to show this, either don't buy stuff, or voice our opinion. I personally do the former, OP did the latter.

Rolling over and telling him to shut up, because the company needs profits only helps the company. It's counter-active to your own interests as a consumer.

A comparison would be, say the PS4 launched at $2000, and someone said F' that too expensive. Another person came up and said, hey Sony needs profits Okay?. Then person A is like 'ah you're right, here sony take my money.' - does this at all sound like a logical and reasonable course of events? No, it's absurd.

In a capitalist economy, we focus on our own well-being and self interests. That is the basis for which we live and how our entire economy works.

[Eidolon]

Snips

****ing hell I love you.

I mean. Yes. Very good points. Very interesting. *Sage nod*

I also really wanna stress that... I really don't like this toxic attitude towards other players who voice their opinion, regardless of their stance. I do not think that SE, as a corporation, is some innocent victim that needs to be defended by the players. I do think it's awesome that they have loyalty from a lot of their fans - that's great for them. But you also wanna make sure that you're not denying others their right to be dissatisfied with the product.

In other words... don't tell people off for disliking something. It's alright to disagree and have a discussion with them - but outright telling someone to STFU and take it is just... A loss for everyone.

[karateorangutang]

snip

That's all true, except for one thing.

People are buying the cash shop items. If they weren't then the company wouldn't pay the upkeep fees to keep the code or the system running. Just look around in game, I'll bet money you see at least 5-6 paid mounts. That right there is over 90 dollars that the company wouldn't have received otherwise.

I have no problem with people voicing the opinion with a good argument behind it. I also think that people need to be realistic in how they are presenting it. I have yet to see one single businessman or woman that would turn down the opportunity for more profit.

Now, if we could get a 2000 char limit I would be the happiest forum goer in the world.