The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[Cilia]

I'll have you know, I'm only doing this because my server is down. Again.

The way I see it, even your dark self thinks of the Scions as a part of you, and of you as a part of them. The reference to being used seems to be concerning all of you, and not just you the Adventurer.

The unfortunate implication of such an interpretation is that you believe the Warrior of Light has no identity beyond that of a Scion, or the title of "Warrior of Light." Which is just malarkey. It could be argued that much of Fray's, meaning your, anger stems from the fact that people do not see you as anything other than those titles and what they carry with them.

Anyway, you wish to contest that some part of the Warrior of Light is willing to throw away everything and start anew someplace else, say Thavnair or Othard, without the Scions?

We can leave it behind. All of it. The Scions. The Alliance. Even Hydaelyn. All we have to do is ask, and [Fray] shall set us free.

Whether you choose to believe it or not is immaterial; the proof is in the pudding, even if the recipe was changed a little by "Fray." Who is you.

On the Scions, check the link I posted in another response to you. There is no way that they do not show concern for you. And I feel the need to mention again that by the time they brought you in, you were not exactly much to look at. You had a few monsters and maybe two dungeons under your belt, hardly anything that in and of itself would catch their attention. However, because they had been watching you and bore witness to your righteous character, they knew that you were a good fit for their organization. You need only look at their organization to know this to be true: they are a non-profit secret organization (until the ending of 2.0 anyway) with access to knowledge that few others possess, and which many in the past have been shunned for (and technically speaking, the Garleans would very much still shun you for it). They use this information solely to save Eorzea from its many dangers. Also, with regards to Minfilia, considering that she is burdened with far more responsibilities than you are, it makes sense for her to be the one to lean on you rather than the opposite, and even so you can confide in her. Because you both have the Echo, she feels like she can speak to you in ways that the other Scions might not be able to understand as non-Echo users.

I never said nobody else showed concern for you, just that if you want to be cynical about it, it's not concern for you as a person but concern for you as a utility. Tataru does seem to care for you as a friend, but the bit from Alphinaud is from 3.0 and in reaction to Estinien's comments, who you stated you do not respect in the slightest. After the Ifrit battle, though, the Scions have few qualms about sending you in to do battle with Primals time and again when any ordinary person would be scared out of their wits. And the Warrior of Light is terrified even if they don't show it to anyone else.

That friend of mine-the one I told you about after our first communion. We came out here together, once. Long story short, we ended up doing something ridiculously foolish and were lucky to make it out alive. I tried to talk [him / her] out of it, but s/he just had to get on that damn boat...

Fray is talking about you and your fight with Leviathan here... and since Fray is you, you're basically admitting you were scared to go fight Leviathan, and it was an incredibly stupid and risky plan. Bismarck is even crazier.

I fail to see how Minfilia is burdened with more responsibilities than the Warrior of Light. One does paperwork, one regularly tangles with phantom gods that will lay waste to the land if suffered to remain manifested too long, on top of shadowy sorcerers intent on bringing ruin to the world and gods know what else. Hmm... yep, that paperwork sure is stressful!

But again, Primals and Ascians are forces we cannot deal with on our own no matter how some may like to say that the Scions don't do much. The simple truth is that they do their job, and you do yours.

I'm not saying nobody does anything to help us; they just leave all the heavy lifting to us. Nobody else regularly risks life and limb. We're put into life-or-death situations and expected to do the work of a dozen men, and nobody bats an eye or gives us much more than pocket change and a pat on the back. While that is what heroes do...

There is something to be said for [going on a journey]-and for travel, for that matter. To roam free and help those in need... Yet no good deed goes unpunished, does it? ...I knew a [wo]man once. Wanted to be a hero, do great things. And so s/he did. The songs always end there. But life doesn't, does it?

... if you look past the ideal hero the Warrior of Light is built up as in 2.x...

Ilberd has zero credence, he's literally just a raging bull at this point. Since Fray is you, she is merely the negative aspects of you, the insecurities more than anything else. The you that is whole (ie that acknowledges Fray's existence but also has positive emotions) knows how to deal with those, and does so on a daily basis.

Ignoring Ilberd just because he's a villain is foolish. He is not right, but he has a point.

Fray is the negative aspects of your personality, but that doesn't mean s/he is just anger and bitterness. If you pay close attention, you see flashes of happiness when you agree with Fray's general outlook, and s/he shows signs of sorrow and despair throughout the 30-50 line. The Warrior of Light obviously can't deal with all of the shit that's been heaped on them; otherwise, Fray wouldn't have been so bitter and angry. We pretend we're okay, we put on a brave face for everyone - but deep down inside, we are on the verge of collapsing.

Warrior of Light really needs a hug, not someone else to throw them at a phantom god that can easily kill them if they falter ever so slightly.

We did absolutely nothing special in 3.0, and most of my frustration with it stems precisely from that. The little we *did* do was uncoordinated and chaotic, and every move we made, whether you like it or not, was overseen by Alphinaud and the authorities in charge in Ishgard. You may call Alphinaud just a diplomat if you wish, but the simple truth is he is a Scion, and is beginning to truly be suited to the role of one. Either way, the chaotic pace of 3.0 alone proves that we are unsuited to not being with the Scions.

Debatable. It depends on what you quantify as "special."

I acknowledge everything we did was pointed to by Alphinaud; that's why I consider him the "true" protagonist of Heavensward. We're just his muscle, as always.

I'd appreciate it if you could explain to me what you mean by saying 3.0's pace was "chaotic." It was a pretty standard 3-act show. And, we got along pretty well without the Scions, or at least the core members of the group most people think about when you say "Scions."

No offense to Haurchefant, but he literally does not have to deal with you on an everyday basis. The Scions, on the other hand, might offer you "meager pay", but their headquarters are your home as much as it is theirs. Since we've already disputed the whole "the Scions protected you because they care about you VS they just protected you because you're the hope of the world", I won't address it again. Also, I said it before, but the Scions' only actual obligations to you are contractual. They are quite literally your co-workers, yet they treat you like family.

That's what makes Haurchefant a good friend, though - he helps you out when you're in the area, is nice and all that, and leaves you to your devices. The Scions do the same, but call you whenever they want something from you. Haurchefant doesn't. When you're in the area you hang out with him.

I know the Scions are a surrogate family for the Warrior of Light, and we did suffer a lot for losing them. But there's nothing saying that some part of them can't be angry and bitter at them for seemingly sacrificing themselves because you're "Eorzea's hope," forcing you to carry an impossibly heavy burden with almost half a dozen peoples' lives directly on your shoulders. It's illogical and irrational - that's fine, because people aren't always logical and rational.

To be fair, what does Estinien know about Alphinaud? To be even fairer, all Estinien does throughout the story is take childish shots at Alphinaud. Estinien is quite literally more immature than Alphinaud, and quite frankly, I don't respect him or his opinion at all. Alphinaud is reasonable so he can take criticism especially when he sees some truth in it, but he also has the tendency to be too hard on himself as of 2.55. I'm pretty certain that it isn't at all the first time that Alphinaud realized that we are normal people, but at the same time, he knows that we are the only ones who can defeat the Primals, so it's not as much of a knee-jerk reaction as Estinien leads him to believe. It's not like I don't agree that we were upset over Haurchefant's death, but there is no way that we stopped considering what was good for everyone, and we certainly didn't stop concerning ourselves with our friends and innocents getting trampled by the Garleans.

Why would it matter what Estinien knows of Alphinaud? He knows Alphinaud is sending us off to fight Ravana and assuming that we'll be successful - that's what we always do. Alph isn't thinking about how we feel or what we want to do; he just says "We're gonna kill Ravana because it's what the Scions do. (And by the Scions, I mean that's your job, Warrior of Light, since you're the only one who can kill Primals.)" That's treating us like a tool, which Estinien calls him out on.

I didn't come here to debate Alphinaud and Estinien's character in 3.0. I think Alphinaud grew from 2.x and Estinien was a complex and relatively mature character, if a little rough around the edges. Leaving it at that.

I never said we stopped thinking about the common good, just that it isn't the only reason we're fighting towards the end of 3.0.