Bard or Machanist?

[KfLeX]

I have Both but Bard will always be my main though, because I started the game as Bard. Both are pretty fun. But now I'm loving Summoner.

[Velhart]

Best to play whichever you prefer, guns or bows. Both jobs have their advantages and disadvantages. You will not have trouble finding groups on either or. Probably be in your best interest to level both since they share the same gear (besides AF) and pretty much go under the same stat priorities for the most part. I am gearing up both, done getting eso's for MCH, now getting remaining AF and got the bow for BRD. I like to think of it as wanting to be an overall efficient support DPS.

[Valoris]

Bear the following in mind : I do not raid, instead I use the duty finder for instances and I solo a lot.

I have a lev.60 Bard at ilev.200 (except for 3 items of jewelry) and currently my MCH is lev.55. So far I find I prefer the MCH to the BRD because so far I find the gameplay is a lot smoother. It looks like MCH is a lot more "work" but I am enjoying it a whole lot better than my BRD. The only thing my BRD does better is kiting mobs.

Bard feels "clunky" and I am not enjoying the experience. I want my old Bard back not the current abomination.


I also have a lev.60 Ninja (ilev.180) and a lev.60 Dragoon (ilev.180). So far, MCH is it for me, unless they fix Bard it probably will be my new main.

[Gamer3427]

Utility: MCH is way better, always can give TP/MP with only the turret loss and using MP that goes towards nothing but resource regenration, while BRD has to have MP for it (sometimes Foe's will drain BRD and then an accident happens) and loses further Foe's by singing resources.

I will add to this the little known fact that we can Hypercharge our TP/MP regen if a true emergency occurs, so that instead of the increased turret damage and debuff, we can provide our regeneration at double capacity. It's very rare that this is a necessity or that Hypercharge will be off cooldown when it's needed, but it can really save a group if the healers are at low MP from constant revives, or if the melee/tanks are out of TP due to low DPS/DeadDPS dragging the fight on longer.....

EDIT: As for the OP's question, both are equally as good, just in different situations. MCH works better with melee/tanks because of our physical DPS buff we can provide, as well as it boosting our own DPS. Bards on the other hand are better suited for caster groups due to having a stronger magic DPS buff that can be kept up for a longer period of time. Ultimately though, while they do have similar capabilities, and similar damage, it amounts to which play style fits for you better. I personally can't stand playing BRD because it feels incredibly slow when compared to MCH, but for most people MCH is a bit too complex for them to play effectively, (hence the massive backlash the class had when it was first released). BRD also has more consistent damage in general, but MCH's burst damage means that every couple of minutes or so you will pass BRD's damage until it evens back out during the down time. This is all of course if you're comparing BRDs and MCHs of equal skill, however. It's up to you to play them both and decide which you enjoy more.....

[UlricCraft]

Bards:

• Do slightly more Multi-Target(1) DPS in prolonged fights.(2)
• Damage is sourced from maintaining DoTs, ogcd proc and 1 button.
• Have to cast MP/TP regeneration abilities centred on BRD.
• Foes Requiem buffs magical damage by 10%. (2 Healer, 1 Mage)
• Battle Voice can double MP/TP regen freely with no DPS loss.(Aside from the norm)
• Can Cross-Class Mantra & Second Wind.
  • 10s Bind - 40s CD
  • 1s Silence - 30s CD
  • 10% Evasion Down on enemy

Machinists:

• Best Burst DPS - Lowest overall DPS(3)
• Damage is sourced through 3-hit combo with unique proc system.
• Stronger & more flexible AoE damage.(4)
• MP/TP Regen is ogcd and can be moved to specific locations.
• Hypercharge buffs physical damage 5% (2 tanks, 2 melee, 1 ranged)
• Hypercharge buffs magical damage 5% (2 healer, 1 mage)
• Cannot boost MP/TP regen as Hypercharge is crucial for DPS.
• Cannot Cross-Class any worthwhile defensive cooldowns and has no self-healing.
  • 12s Bind - 20s CD
  • 2s Silence - 25s CD
  • 2s Stun - 25s CD
  • 12s Heavy - 20s
  • Knockback - 30s
  • 10s -5% Magical or Physical damage - 90s

Summary

• Bards do more damage in most end-game fights, for whatever reason, they just do. This difference ranges from an unnoticeable 25 DPS to several hundred. (The next point might give insight into why)
• Bards are played almost three times as much in end-game content.
• Bards are easier to play and require less focus on strict rotation and cooldown alignment. (Hardest class, lowest damage? TY SE?)
• Machinists aren't trash. They're viable and extremely useful in a lot of cases. If you need something dead in 15s, they can do it better than most.
• Machinist utility is undoubtedly greater in almost every aspect (except mp/tp regen once or twice a fight)
• 5% physical damage with a standard party of 5 physical damage dealers is stronger than 10% on 2 magical casters. Even if your personal numbers are lower, consider how much you're boosting team DPS.
• Their single-target parses are pretty similar. Like, <35 total DPS difference most of the time.

(1) Venomous Bite + Windbite = 18s, applied to a maximum of 3 targets you can juggle your two strongest skills with Iron Jaws. MCH can't achieve these potencies without using AOE rotations. When you've got two bosses (A1S) double-DOTting results in amazing damage.
(2) BRD solo damage is predominantly higher due to the way Wildfire and cooldowns align in actual fights, Bards aren't restricted to unleash their full potential 90% of the time.
(3) Hardest class to play? Lowest potencies? Not played often enough? Too much utility & party buffing capability? Statistically they are the weakest and it's just an unfortunate truth.
(4) Bishop Turret = 600 potency/30s that can be repositioned + 120 Grenado vs Flaming Arrow 350 potency/30s that can't be moved + 110 Quick Nook. MCH can also Hypercharge for 780/30s.

[RiceisNice]

The thread is a month old since the last response, but eh...

Machinist utility is undoubtedly greater in almost every aspect (except mp/tp regen once or twice a fight)

Their regens are much more flexibile for inbetween phasing. Only a couple of fights actually cater to this nich though (thordan EX comes to mind). It also does not affect the MCH's damage directly, so their rotation can continue as normal versus a BRD with DoTs

Hypercharge buffs magical damage 5% (2 healer, 1 mage)

Direct comparison to foe aside, also keep in mind that this is also lowering the potency of your turret from 160 to 120 for the duration of hypercharge. . For the most part as far as damage is concerned, hyperchage is buffing your turet's dps, with the debuff as a secondary bonus.

5% physical damage with a standard party of 5 physical damage dealers is stronger than 10% on 2 magical casters. Even if your personal numbers are lower, consider how much you're boosting team DPS.

Don't forget that foe requiem has a much much longer uptime than hypercharge ever will. And top that off with hyper charge being a damage cooldown on top of a defensive cooldown, trying to use one for the other will either detriment your dps or lose the option of having burst mana regen.

Other than that, what needed to be said as been said. MCH and BRD are similar to each other in every regard; in the roles they play, their performance (with some variance), and handling outside of cooldowns. At this point, you're much better off picking the one that you want to play as. People say that MCH is more work for the same result (which is true when it comes to the burst periods), but as someone who full time mained bard, I welcome this and prefer MCH over BRD since they really have not changed much as far as playstyle/gameplay is concerned from 2.0.

[Myon88]

BRD
"Battle Voice can double MP/TP regen freely with no DPS loss.(Aside from the norm)"
MCH
"Cannot boost MP/TP regen as Hypercharge is crucial for DPS."

I'm curious about the disparity here, because I was under the impression BV coupled with Foes was basically the biggest selling point of the BRD. Hypercharge's piddly 5% vulnerability is too crucial to DPS to use on regen, but BV buffing Foes from 10% to 20% isn't?

[jssanderson747]

I'm curious about the disparity here

A bard guide I use did some of the math, I'll just paste the gist of it:

" Comparing both of their "DPS" boosts in 2x Melee and 2x Mage party comps:
(.78%/.57%)MCH - 2x Melee Group - .78% | 1x Melee - .57% (Math Below)
(1.2%/2.16%)BRD - 1x Mage Group - 1.2% | 2x Mage - 2.16% (Math Below) (Do note that results may vary depending on if a Brd can consistenly play Foe. Also Caster dps deal slightly lower dps than melees)
(1.15%/2.07%)BRD with only 2x BV Foes - 1.15% / 2.07% Respectively "

The difference is fairly slight, if a little in favor of bard because bv is stronger than hypercharge

[RiceisNice]

I'm curious about the disparity here, because I was under the impression BV coupled with Foes was basically the biggest selling point of the BRD. Hypercharge's piddly 5% vulnerability is too crucial to DPS to use on regen, but BV buffing Foes from 10% to 20% isn't?

My BRD (or BRDs in general) have always ben valued for foe requiem, not necessarily BV + foe. Hypercharge is also integral to MCH's personal dps, while battle voice isn't to BRD, and that hypercharge itself is also the damage vulnerability debuff.

You're comparing the loss of a 5% physical debuff and 160 potency hits versus doubled regen to a 20% foe req versus double regen, when the latter can still do foe req for 10% without BV (and as mentioned before, the 5% vulnerability debuff is tied to hypercharge)

[Underdog2204]

Snip

If I could like the post 1000 times I would.