Tank Balance - Thordan EX 7-WAR 1-WHM Clear (Really SE?)

[Syzygian]

War's dps is not the issue and never was. The only thing that is, is the fact that they have infinite tp and can survive in the absence of a healer considerably longer than any other job.

[Reynhart]

Classes don't need "flaws" they need to lack a utility that another class brings.

So, what do WAR lack ?

They could attach a debuff to RA that increases blunt damage and then make shield swipe blunt damage and then BOOM they are MNKs favorite tank.

Do MNK stop using Dragon Kick in their optimal rotation, nowadays ? Because if they do, they won't care about PLD bringing a blunt debuff.

Also you do not want tanks to have TOO low DPS because then people won't bring them.

Or maybe they'll bring them...you know...to tank ?

The only thing that is, is the fact that they have infinite tp

Which is one of the reason they can sustain good DPS even after their burst phase. It's also one the reason that DRK and PLD have such a low DPS on longer fights.

[Vogue]

What you seem to fail to understand is that in this specific fight, everything perfectly lines up with WAR's burst phase (Berserk). That's why they're so high and they bring almost DPS-levels of DPS. You also seem to forget that there is only one healer, compared to a normal group with 2 of them. I'm very confident that a group with 5 DPS and 1 healer is gonna wreck the shit out of Thordan in a faster way than this 7 WAR clear.

There is only one healer because Warriors HP pool even when in DPS stance, is so high that they require little to none healing. So great DPS with little chance of dying from aoes that cannot be avoided. Still shows that something is wrong in this picture.

Idea! leave warrior amazing dps alone, but make them as squishy as all other DPS while in Deliverance, sounds fair? easy fix, no?

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

So, what do WAR lack ?

Do MNK stop using Dragon Kick in their optimal rotation, nowadays ? Because if they do, they won't care about PLD bringing a blunt debuff.

Or maybe they'll bring them...you know...to tank ?

Currently WARs lack the ability to buff any class other than a tank or NIN DPS, they lack any sort of party MP/TP regen, they lack things that no other tank currently has but that they COULD have. Everyone is so afraid of the dredged homogenization monster but keep bitching for PLD to become a WAR clone. How about people bitch for SE to do something innovative with their class and make it grea and unique like they did with WAR.

Also if a tanks DPS is too low people will just bring a DPS in VIT gear... You haven't played that many MMOs have you? Tank DPS has always been a slippery slope.

As for MNK, yes if they have another MNK to apply debuff then they drop Dragon Kick for a higher DPS rotation lol...

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

There is only one healer because Warriors HP pool even when in DPS stance, is so high that they require little to none healing. So great DPS with little chance of dying from aoes that cannot be avoided. Still shows that something is wrong in this picture.

Idea! leave warrior amazing dps alone, but make them as squishy as all other DPS while in Deliverance, sounds fair? easy fix, no?

You do realize that all tanks share the same HP pools in OT stance right? That is a gear thing... Not a WAR thing... lol...wow.. Just... Wow...

You are the perfect picture of people who should not be posting about balance

[Vogue]

You do realize that all tanks share the same HP pools right? That is a gear thing... Not a WAR thing lol...

yes but can the other 2 tanks do the numbers warriors can in long fights?

And don't get mad because I bring valid points to the conversation, you keep saying about how Warrior is a special snowflake, who can self heal quite often and by quite a lot, also can dps pretty good, can tank while in dps stance, and yet you refuse to see that they can perform all the 3 main roles in this game, and stop saying things about support abilities, why they need a support ability anyway, the ones they "need" they already have them? TP regen, heal, dmg reductions and damage buffs, sure give them trick attack as well, maybe a party wide heal also? that will make them too strong right?

This is not about how useful a warrior is to the party members, it is about how they can play so many roles in 1 single class.

HP Down~

[Syzygian]

Which is one of the reason they can sustain good DPS even after their burst phase. It's also one the reason that DRK and PLD have such a low DPS on longer fights.

Uhh your tp pool lasts a lot longer than your burst phase no matter what job you're playing, the hell does this post even mean? There's all of about 1 fight in the game right now that has sufficient uptime for a drk or pld to be tp flooring. Yet people talk about it like its this prolific, crippling issue.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

don't get mad because I bring valid points to the conversation,

All three tanks can preform all the jobs at once lmfao.

WAR has Fell Cleave, Berserk, Maim, and Eye for DPS. Path, Bloodbath, IB, and Equilibrium for heals, and duh tank CDs.

PLD has Clemency, Bloodbath, and Devine Veil for heals, Goring Blade, RA, and FoF for DPS, and tank CDs

DrK has Bloodbath, Sole Survivor, Soul Eater, and Abyssal Drain for heals, Bloodweapon, Carve and Spit, and like 5 other oGCDs for DPS, and tanks CDs.

You are not bringing up ANY valid points or arguments. You are only echoing other people's misinformed opinions of duuuuuurrr WAR deepz OP and duuuurrrrr WAR haz 2 much HP...

Seriously man do you even tank?

[karateorangutang]

There is only one healer because Warriors HP pool even when in DPS stance, is so high that they require little to none healing. So great DPS with little chance of dying from aoes that cannot be avoided. Still shows that something is wrong in this picture.

Idea! leave warrior amazing dps alone, but make them as squishy as all other DPS while in Deliverance, sounds fair? easy fix, no?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how are WAR's less squishy in their DPS stance? They retain the same amount of CD's every other tank does when they are in deliverance. In fact they lose IB entirely in favor or a more damaging alternative. They also lose the heal off of equilibrium. If your looking at pure survivability then deliverance doesn't seem to be any better than SwO or Darkside (only). PLD retains shield and DRK doesn't effectively lose an on demand cooldown.

I'm not gonna argue that WAR isn't a powerful class. I think your making mountains out of molehills here though. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Freyyy]

Your point with the drawing is not really accurate, since there's no point of reference for what drawing he should be able to do.

It's completely accurate. What drawing he should be able to do = the best he can do. The best SE can do in terms of job balance is what they did with WAR. They should bring the same level of job design to every job, at least for tanks. This simple thing would bring a lot more balance to the tanks. When you have the talent to do something very good, not using it is a waste and a sign of laziness.

There is only one healer because blablablah BS

Solo healing Thordan EX with 2 tanks and 5 DPS has been done. Yes it's easier with 7 WARs, but the raid DPS is much lower than with 5 DPS. I start to believe that people arguing about that only did Thordan with shitty PUGs.