@SE, For the next "catch-up" patch, please unlock the raid as well

[xvshanevx]

there are 1463 Gobwalker in game. not everyone in every group that has cleared A4S has this mount, but i think we can say there are around 200 groups who have cleared savage. not hundreds, yes.

Just wanna quickly state that many people buy AS3 and AS4 clears for both mounts, gears, and clears. So you cannot account every that has a mount actually being in the raiding scene.

[KarstenS]

not hundreds, yes.

Was sleepy. Saw "100%", not "100's"

[Ryuko]

Even with better gear or echo, A3S and A4S will be major headaches for people because of the mechanics involved. I think A1S and A2S can be done without much discussion (and even in DF groups, no issue) as long as everyone understands the fight and their individual role.

I don't think these fights should be nerfed because this is the 'one thing' that is meant to challenge the raiding community. That said, I think Thordan: Ex is a little bit more difficult than anyone anticipated. The DPS/healing/tank checks on this fight are pretty tight, assuming you don't have the best of the best gear. Also, the mechanics are really familiar for folks who know Coil, but not so much for people who didn't do Coil. So, the learning curve is really dependent on that. I enjoyed the difficulty of Thordan: Ex, but I could see them nerfing this fight to make it more accessible to the general playerbase.

I think what the OP said is exactly why SE is going to keep some stuff gated. They made an easier Alexander so that people could still see/enjoy the story without having to deal with the headache of raiding. This was a huge complaint regarding Coil -- a storyline so central to the transition between 1.0 and 2.0, yet few people were able to do it without serious help (if they didn't have time/care to raid).

I think a mistake was making Alexander easy TOO easy. It was so easy that you could basically ignore (most) mechanics and be okay. There were just a few gimmicks you absolutely could not ignore. I think the general public could have dealt with a more difficult 'easy' raid... even Void Ark seemed more challenging than the easy mode of Alex.

For the future... I anticipate the easy mode of the next level of Alex to be a bit more challenging. This will get the general playerbase more interested, and they won't be able to clear it within a week and then just grind it out until they don't care about the gear anymore (which is basically outdated compared to Eso/VA gear).

[Jim_Berry]

*SNIP*

If you can sit in the Diadem for hours and get broken 210 gear, why is it so bad if people farmed A1S for accessories?

*SNIP*

People like me are locked behind restrictions. I have no access to TeamSpeak, and MANY groups run on weekends (I work 3p-11p Thursday thru Sunday). That said, Diadem is where I get my iLv210 gear without the need of TeamSpeak or a static, and I can go during MY times. I have yet to clear A1S even though I have knowledge as both NIN and PLD.

[UBERHAXED]

Yes please. Our static only raids on weekends, and as of late this hasn't been working out because people have in real life situations to attend to, meaning less raid time for us. If people aren't here, we can't raid. No lockout would mean we could at least pug people who are available and get practice in.

This is why we were able to clear Thordan Ex within the first week, but haven't cleared A3S yet X_x

Or maybe it's because Thordan is easier??!!

Even with better gear or echo, A3S and A4S will be major headaches for people because of the mechanics involved. I think A1S and A2S can be done without much discussion (and even in DF groups, no issue) as long as everyone understands the fight and their individual role.

I don't think these fights should be nerfed because this is the 'one thing' that is meant to challenge the raiding community. That said, I think Thordan: Ex is a little bit more difficult than anyone anticipated. The DPS/healing/tank checks on this fight are pretty tight, assuming you don't have the best of the best gear. Also, the mechanics are really familiar for folks who know Coil, but not so much for people who didn't do Coil. So, the learning curve is really dependent on that. I enjoyed the difficulty of Thordan: Ex, but I could see them nerfing this fight to make it more accessible to the general playerbase.

I think what the OP said is exactly why SE is going to keep some stuff gated. They made an easier Alexander so that people could still see/enjoy the story without having to deal with the headache of raiding. This was a huge complaint regarding Coil -- a storyline so central to the transition between 1.0 and 2.0, yet few people were able to do it without serious help (if they didn't have time/care to raid).

I think a mistake was making Alexander easy TOO easy. It was so easy that you could basically ignore (most) mechanics and be okay. There were just a few gimmicks you absolutely could not ignore. I think the general public could have dealt with a more difficult 'easy' raid... even Void Ark seemed more challenging than the easy mode of Alex.

For the future... I anticipate the easy mode of the next level of Alex to be a bit more challenging. This will get the general playerbase more interested, and they won't be able to clear it within a week and then just grind it out until they don't care about the gear anymore (which is basically outdated compared to Eso/VA gear).

Uh... what are we even comparing too? DPS checks and tank checks are non-existent. They literally threw a mechanic in that required you to bring a second tank as a body instead of 5 DPS. DPS check is as "tight" as AS1, which can be cleared 6 minutes earlier than enrage right now. Enrage is 11 minutes for Thordan BTW. You can literally stop DPS for a few seconds to do mechanics. I'm not too sure about heal checks, it's about as heavy as any other content we've seen.

[Gamer3427]

In my experience, people who want to DF it just want to sit back and be silent, never acknowledge or own up to their mistakes, and vote abandon after 3 wipes.

You can get DF groups that will wait until 3 wipes? You must be getting pretty lucky then. It's usually a 2 wipe max before people start abandoning or kicking in my experience, even on difficult content that you're meant to wipe multiple times on without a perfect group.....

[Ryuko]

Uh... what are we even comparing too? DPS checks and tank checks are non-existent. They literally threw a mechanic in that required you to bring a second tank as a body instead of 5 DPS. DPS check is as "tight" as AS1, which can be cleared 6 minutes earlier than enrage right now. Enrage is 11 minutes for Thordan BTW. You can literally stop DPS for a few seconds to do mechanics. I'm not too sure about heal checks, it's about as heavy as any other content we've seen.

I really don't consider the 'hard' enrage as the real enrage, because if people fail mechanics (and they often do), they'll have weakness by the time you get to the AoE damage phase followed by the knight (dps check) in the middle with the tether on Thordan. If your healers aren't already OOM by this point, it will be hard for them to keep up weakened people regardless because the group will take heavy AoE damage just a second or two before the central knight's AoE triggers. It basically requires the healers to get the group capped twice (with extra mitigation for weakened people). It's very rare I've ever seen a group get past this point simply because of weakness/gear/mp (and this situation will ONLY happen if your dps is slow -- so, it's likely most people are weakened at this point). Almost every group I've seen clear has had to do it before the knight in the center even spawns. This fight is not as forgiving as other extremes in this sense. Granted, it's easy to carry people through the fight, but only if (most) people are on point. Even in farm groups that were clearing consistently, I would almost always see one person dying on every single run.

What's even more amazing/ridiculous about this is I have done it with people currently working on A3S, and it still takes them hours (or DAYS) to grasp it... showing just how easy AS1 and AS2 are compared to AS3 and Thordan Ex. Again, I enjoyed the fight -- but I could see them nerfing it in some way. They always add echo to 'extreme' fights, but I wouldn't be surprised if other mechanics were slightly tweaked to be more forgiving.

[Felis]

It seems that way for you since your server is less in player numbers. overloaded ones have alot of players who didn't even attempt savage yet.

But yeah they should unlock the savage runs in the df, its just silly not to after its been out for so long. :/

So long they don't nerf it down before the newer Alex is ingame.

Let DF pug parties hit the content with their heads, if they want ^^
But don't come to the forum and demand nerfs before 3.2

[ReddAxel]

Or maybe it's because Thordan is easier??!!

That isn't the point. Point being we were able to continue getting practice in because we could pug people, even if they didn't have the best DPS we could practice mechanics. Our group only raids on weekends, the people who are online during the weekdays can't even get in any other practice in savage due to the loot lockout. We don't wanna screw our static out of loot. Thordan allowed us to pick up people anytime and whenever we wanted to.

If we could get the same amount of practice time in A3S as we did Thordan then we probably could have cleared by now. Once Alex Savage is off weekly lockout we'll be able to do just that.

[Deathscythe343]

I don't think many players are going to be interested in it once the new tomestones hit the shelves.

This seems very likely.