Diadem and Savage - I can't deal with it anymore

[NoahArks]

Savage is just something they've thrown in to keep people playing while they take 5 ages to come with a worthwhile update. It's just catering towards the elitists and it's not even a part of the game most people would bother with, because you can just play the normal version. Only the elitists are like: "Omg, I need to be i9000 before others!!!"

[Yonanja]

I thought hardcore raiders raided because they liked it? All I'm seeing here is "I'm no longer a special snowflake!", and would like to point out that: yes, you're still just as much a special snowflake as you were before. The gear dropped in savage still proves that you've done savage. No more should be needed for you to feel special really. Being upset over the fact that not everyone except the few hardcore raiders are no longer bellow 200 seems pretty petty to me. Especially since the game got way bigger issues right now as it is. Classbalance, recycling of content, the grindfest that is diadem and so on...

[Dyvid]

As it stands, knowing the pattern now, I still raid, and still want to clear Alex Savage, but my dedication to doing so is nowhere near what I had with Coil. The rewards feel transient, and by the time I might obtain them, the skill requirement might be lifted/eased, or easier alternatives will be in place. Then there's the relic too. I WANT to beat Thordan Ex, I WANT those weapons, but there's still my Eso wep, and the coming relic, both more than likely to be of a higher item level/more useful. Thus motivation takes a huge hit.

Well the best follow-up is why do people prefer to do hardcore content over normal? Is it the challenge or the shiny's? How can SE draw a line to please both groups without screwing one or the other? If you recall Hunts had the same debate and complaints when they decide to have upgrade items added to it in the catch up patch.

[AuroraPolaris]

I really have to throw this out there because I've read every post on this thread and only one single other person has agreed with me on this: A3S is, hands down, the best fight this game has seen so far. It is the perfect balance of mechanical and damage required difficulties, closely beating T12. It absolutely annoys me that so many people, especially top end-game raiders don't appreciate how well designed that fight is.

Now, let's talk about Alexander. The problem with this raid and why so many people hate on it stems from the fact that a story-mode (Alexander NM) was introduced. That was a horrible idea and something that SE should never repeat. The story mode did nothing more than burn out raiders much quicker than they would have because almost everything in the normal raid was present in the savage one. From the music, to the loot aesthetics, to the actual fundamental mechanics, the fights just seemed uninteresting and wore players out completely due to boredom. If story-mode Alexander didn't exist, the charm the raid has would have been more prominent. Yes, A1, 2 and 4 are terrible fights, but they still added new dimensions we haven't seen before even with Coil (placing the adds under the beams, using the gobwalker, royal pentacle hold the cheese). Unfortunately, they already talked about possibly adding yet another difficulty with the new raid in 3.2, so we'll see what happens as we get closer to that.

With regards to Diadem, I'm just going to be honest here and say that I don't mind it, in terms of having something to mindlessly grind. In terms of gear and the frequency at which it drops (even after the latest nerf), it is absolutely stupid. I don't mind there being something that could potentially drop items just as good as Gordian gear in terms of stats, which requires a bit of grinding to obtain. But that's it. Just as good, not better. Reddit Photoshop masterpieces aside, I've personally seen some atrociously good pieces drop in Diadem, that make Esoteric and Gordian gear look like Neverreap loot. It just shouldn't work that way. I'm all for people playing the catch-up game and getting on the same level raiders have been on for months, but to exceed that level by setting yourself on auto-pilot for 90 minutes isn't the way to go. The only reason I would join a Diadem party these days is to save up spoils for materia which will be needed in 3.2.

I understand the majority of this game's player base are casuals (I don't mean that in a bad way; not everyone has the time or skill to tackle end-game content), but for SE to undermine one group's content to appease another's is unjust. End-game is called that for a reason, it's something you do as a challenge, something you take time to figure out and complete in order to get the best items the game has to offer. To completely make all that irrelevant by adding a grind method that can provide players with better gear (regardless of the RNG factor involved) is killing content for these players. In the weeks leading up to 3.1, I was excited about the patch, and I made my peace with Void Ark giving players a weekly token that can be exchanged for a coat or twine (personally speaking, it was too soon for the twine, and I had hoped you'd at least need 2 of them per twine). But then I read that hunts would be another method of getting these items and I was immediately let down. A few days after the patch I ran into a player with full 210 Esoteric gear, bar the weapon and it hurt, because they had never step foot in Alexander savage. Still, I accepted it. So is the way of the odd patches and I don't mind it. What I do mind however is players having access to gear that trumps raid gear, and devalues the whole idea of raiding in the first place. Casual players will retort by saying "raids should just be there for the challenge, nothing more". Well the same could be said to you about end-game gear. Apart from savage, and maybe Thordan, there is no other content in the game that would require players to have BiS gear. So why would you need gear that is better than what raids have to offer?

In summation, the game needs to have different tiers of difficulty. Players need to be okay about not being able to enter or complete content that is too difficult for them. It's just like high school: you have math and AP calculus (or core and extended). You don't have to take the harder subject, but if you do you'll be rewarded by being accepted into select programs. There is always a reward for something you have to invest more time and effort into, and you can't expect to be given the same reward just because you pay the same subscription fee. Diadem needs to be reworked in many ways, but for starters gear needs to be equal to or lower than raid gear, not better. And story-mode has to go. I wouldn't mind them giving players access to viewing all the cut scenes X-weeks after the first clear of a raid, but to have a dummy version of the actual raid is not the way to go about it.

[Havenchild]

Being upset over the fact that not everyone except the few hardcore raiders are no longer bellow 200 seems pretty petty to me.

Honestly, if this is your take away from this, that's abyssmal reading comprehension.

[Dyvid]

Snip

Just a few counter key points. First I don't consider raids hardcore content; Void Ark, Alex:N, and Diadem are raids but just geared for the casual crowd over hardcore. Challenge doesn't equal end game in my opinion but lets not get hung on word play.

Second lets talk about Alexander. I would concede that SE needs to have Normal and Savage unlocked at the same time and needs to be done with 3.2. After that it's all on the players, they can chose to run either Normal or Savage for their Alex experience. If they want to "peek at their present" then they can't be pissed when they find out what they got. Also I would even say have the appearance of Savage armor be slightly better than normal.

Honestly the only real reward for Alex:Normal was cool glamour gear and experiencing the story line which is want casual players cared but it was enjoyable for the experience and I would even wager it made some people want to try harder content. To remove that is foolish.

[Waeksyn]

The gear arguments boil down to hard core raiders feeling that they can only feel motivated if their rewards are exclusive. Raiders need to be separated from the unwashed masses - can't have the help driving a BMW! What would they say at the club?

[F_Maximillian]

The gear arguments boil down to hard core raiders feeling that they can only feel motivated if their rewards are exclusive. Raiders need to be separated from the unwashed masses - can't have the help driving a BMW! What would they say at the club?

This is a seriously unfair argument that I've seen pop up alot on threads here and on reddit. Lets look at it logically instead of with the large rock of salt between our teeth shall we? Note, I don't raid on this game nor have much interest in it but I have raided in the past. If top end raiders truly only cared about their rewards being exclusive then once all world firsts are cleared they would collectively give up because their snowflake is occupied.

The issue is not so much that "oh hey the help has the same car as the employer" but "the employer worked for years to get to where they are that they can afford to have that car and the help happened upon an even better car when they decided to put them in the dollar store". Its the fact that hours spent learning and bashing their heads against this particularly unenjoyable (if you go by the opinions of the majority) set of raids to get gear that's worse than what the average non-raiding Joe can pull with one day of camping in a mob of people farming Diadem. BiS gear should be reserved for the hardest content, nearly 98% super close gear can be in whatever catch up bundles you want but why work for the best when the true best comes from doing things that take barely any effort? That's the problem many have with Diadem right now.

[ZanzhizExaverion]

I had someone today in a party bragging about a clearing A4S, wearing 9 pieces of Diadem gear. It was funny to read.

[Nominous]

I'm almost inclined to say that everyone (including me) playing this game takes it for granted. Then I remember we're all paying subs, and we should actively shape the game we want.

To be fair though, I've played my fair share of MMORPG, and I have to say that the raiding in FFXIV is far better in a lot of regards. It requires a ton of teamwork, and that's a good thing. It could definitely be toned down a little, because it's almost in excess at this point, but still. A lot of MMORPG's that are out now have a lot of people soloing half the content in the game, even if it's new content.

We've also got better drop situations than other MMO out there. Don't get me started on pretty much ANY Korean (aka all other) MMO's that have literal less than 1% drop rates for materials to craft raid tier gear. Raid gear that can then break when you upgrade them to be actually viable.

We got it sort of good. It does need work, but it isn't all bad.