Diadem and Savage - I can't deal with it anymore

[Butcherboy]

You can't say you don't need BIS because you don't raid, I don't do raids I don't do static but I still want BIS. So having an opportunity to get it by other means is great for me. To me it's more the many ways in acquiring gear not just raids. I love Diablo so I enjoy diadem, and diadem have so much potential. Remember 2.0 when we only had first coil 3 primald and an over spam WP and AK? Well it's the same now. Eventually will get more contents as time goes on, that to me is something to look forward to. I've played a lot of MMO and this by far us one of the best MMO I've played in a long time and it's just the beginning. Right now the game is on a steady phase and when new content s get release it'll go up again. May be a break is what you need.

[Aikaal]

You can't say you don't need BIS because you don't raid

You need 210 Diadem pieces for what? You need it because it's the best piece in the game. You have no other reason to need that piece besides that. Hardcore players are the same but they actually have an easier life being geared when they do raid content. You also can't judge if you don't raid yourself. There is an unquestionable difference between 2.x raid content and 3.x current raid content. 3.x is awful progression, story, fun wise. I also don't agree everybody have the same chances for BiS. To begin with the best gear shouldn't be RNG distributed. It should be rewarded by clearing hard fights.

Diadem should be about exploring places and seeing scenery. This is not the game, it's a grindfest. SE failed hard on that concept, it's a disaster and a failure. I would love Diadem if it gave cool unique mounts/glamour. Its not the case.

Sorry to see you so disappointed Aikaal. Your help in the BLM community brought the job back out of the slimy pool 3.0 shoved it in (also, pretty sure it helped QoL changes to the job too).

I do agree high end raiding in 3.0 is fubar.
*But* I am glad it happened. SE probably tried another direction, and failed. They will adapt the model to go back to Coil (high end being best gear there is). The problem is the time it takes to make the change. Players are consumers here in the West. We're real quick to drop something that doesn't give us what we want for the most part. That's fine and all, but on games...it's potentially dangerous for the game itself.
It's been 5 months or so that it's out, so I'll wait to see if there's something that gives at 3.15/3.2 before hexing it.

PS: ThordanEX is the best fight this game has so far IMO. The best.

Thanks buddy, I'm still clearing Alexander with my friends and I will check what 3.2 offers but I don't have much hope.

[DenebPunkin]

LIMIT BREAK

[Gehena]

>I don't know any MMORPG that've allowed BiS to be outside of raiding content.
>FFXI

There are other MMO that supported a non-instance raid environment. MMO that are heavily invested in instanced raids/dungeons are repetitive and bland. I believe Diadem to be a step in the right direction for several reasons. Just because it's "easy" now doesn't deter the possible influence to the meta.

Given the amount of effort to coordinate and farm efficiently to the distance traveled/progression obstacles the content itself is very promising. They obviously didn't want people to grind out BiS from the last patch, but considering the amount of time and effort through pure RNG it really shouldn't act as a deterrent to players that strive for end-game. The gear is essentially useless unless its being put to use.

[Aikaal]

>I don't know any MMORPG that've allowed BiS to be outside of raiding content.
>FFXI
MMO that are heavily invested in instanced raids/dungeons are repetitive and bland. I believe Diadem to be a step in the right direction for several reasons.

So spamming Diadem 6 times a day to get 210 that are better than raid content is not repetitive? No? Okay. You don't need that BiS if you don't raid anyways.

I'm sorry but I fail to understand your logic. If Diadem is the right way then there is no reason to raid anymore in this game and everybody that are looking for a game to raid will just look elsewhere.

[Gehena]

I'm sorry but I fail to understand your logic. If Diadem is the right way then there is no reason to raid anymore in this game and everybody that are looking for a game to raid will just look elsewhere.

Your argument is purely opinion, I'm giving you facts. it's an educated assumption from past games that have either introduced similar content or converted over to large scale PvE. Arguing that a grind is repetitive is irrelevant, what is an MMO if not a grind? Literally regurgitating the same content for the past two and a half years is stagnant.

I'm not arguing that Diadem isn't currently a casual grind, but it directly resembles prior patches that influenced that overall quality of previous MMO. You can't compromise the quality of a game just to make it more "difficult", because at the end of the day the end-game community is minute in comparison to the concurrent player-base which in fact have a larger voice influencing the direction of the game.

[Dyvid]

So spamming Diadem 6 times a day to get 210 that are better than raid content is not repetitive? No? Okay. You don't need that BiS if you don't raid anyways.

I'm sorry but I fail to understand your logic. If Diadem is the right way then there is no reason to raid anymore in this game and everybody that are looking for a game to raid will just look elsewhere.

The problem is you'te not talking about raiding but rather hardcore verse casual content and a line to divide them. Alex:N, Diadem, and Void ark are raids but for casual players. Alex:S and to lesser degree Primal EX is the only hardcore content. Maybe the best option is release a Normal and Savage version of the 3 raids when they launch with an ilvl dividing it. The gear should be designed similar to how PvP animal gear is with high tier tweaking the appearance slightly. I don't know, the best question is what do hardcore players actually want?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't know, the best question is what do hardcore players actually want?

I can summate this one well, with a bit of rhetoric if you'll humor me:

Say you're a raider and while your static isn't world-first level, you guys all really put in 100% effort and progress at a fairly decent rate. You've had good nights, bad nights, setbacks, had to cancel a raid night or two for RL reasons, but you FINALLY got all your gear/upgrades and are now a solid 210. . .

Then SE released Diadem the next day, and someone who farmed it all day is now 210 as well.

That's what we DON'T want. This isn't saying "casuals" (prefer not to use that term in a bad way) or non-raiders don't deserve to gear up, but they don't deserve to be able to gear to the same level with less or minimal effort. Yes, time and future content makes that possible anyways, but as there is no higher raid tier/item levels right now, I say too much too soon. And it's not the first time it's happened. Won't be the last either.

For raiders and "hardcores" it becomes, "Why bother climbing the mountain when they're going to just add a lift to the top soon?"

[NoahArks]

Savage is just something they've thrown in to keep people playing while they take 5 ages to come with a worthwhile update. It's just catering towards the elitists and it's not even a part of the game most people would bother with, because you can just play the normal version. Only the elitists are like: "Omg, I need to be i9000 before others!!!"

[Kiara]

Hi Aikaal and all,

I agree about the Alexander Savage thoughts (recycled, boring, etc.) and the lack of skill check vs. gear check.

But I'd say that for Diadem, while it currently isn't optimally used, it has *potential* and I welcome MORE variety for end game activities, not less.

We shouldn't be calling for nerfing Diadem, but rather how can the Dev Team improve it so that it can be a satisfying, viable End Game Raid.

In Final Fantasy XI there was room for both Sky *and* Dynamis (and Sea, and HNM Kings, BCNMs, etc.). I'm not saying Diadem is like Dynamis, but I hope it can develop to be more interesting.

There is a "Diadem (HARD)" mode already. And it's certainly harder than Normal or Easier, but still relatively straight forward right now.

I can see the Dev Team developing Diadem Hard to have more uses for the Caves. For Side Paths, for secret Islands, where you fight Secret Bosses / HNMs for rare drops / cool Key Items.

They could add more meaningful Side Objectives to Diadem (not just gather 16 items, etc.), where completing these Objectives will force spawn a Boss / World Event that you have to clear to get a Platinum Chest with rare drops, Mats, etc.

There's nothing wrong with having more than 1 venue drop BiS Gear. It should just be satisfying, challenging and meaningful. More variety is always better than having just 1 End Game Raid.

I hope the Dev Team develops The Diadem into something more exciting, with Side Paths, Secret Bosses / HNMs, Objectives, etc.