The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[Anonymoose]

[Haurchefant Ixion]

(Yes, that is Haurchefant.)

Also, can we start calling the ixion-centaur-thing Horsechefant? I'm gonna start calling it Horsechefant.

[Emmanellain]

(Yes, that is Haurchefant.)

Also, can we start calling the ixion-centaur-thing Horsechefant? I'm gonna start calling it Horsechefant.

The Ixion-Haurchefant/ascian resurrection theories have amassed enough popularity on social media, might as well give the most heart wrenching one a cute name like Horsechefant lol

Although the vast majority of us would ugly cry if we had to put him down.

[Ayuhra]

I am getting kind of sick of all the Song of Ice and Fire references in this game. Fine series of books/shows but come on, already.

Inb4 more Haurchefant resurrection theories.

/draws a deep breath....


No I don't really think he's coming back unless it is as Ixion or an Ascian puppet (we know what they can do with fresh corpses). Coming back to life for realsies is unlikely....sort of.

I don't think SE really planned for this character to skyrocket in popularity like this.

[Cilia]

I don't think SE really planned for [Haurchefant] to skyrocket in popularity like this.

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar. You may have become friends over time, but it was largely an alliance of convenience (for them) that could have played out like my reaction to the average episode of Dora the Explorer.

Local Archon: "You wanna join the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and help protect the realm?"
Warrior of Light: "Not really...?"
Local Archon: "Great! Meet me at the Waking Sands in Vesper Bay, Western Thanalan!"

Compare to Haurchefant, who asks you a (relatively) small favor he just can't do because of his station and is eternally and genuinely grateful for it. Even if he is more than a little flamboyant, especially in the Japanese dialogue.

That said, I do wish they'd stop laying him on quite so thick.

[Emmanellain]

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar.

That said, I do wish they'd stop laying him on quite so thick.

Tbh I think it's awesome that they pay so much attention to the fanbase, I've never seen an MMO be as in tune with their audience and giving them what they want before or pay homage to popular NPC's as this one. It feels like a sincere apology from SE for killing off one of the players few genuine NPC friends. Many people i know find it suspicious as to why there's SO much content around him after he died, i mean christ most NPC's in Camp Dragonhead change dialogue several times depending on where you are in the MSQ after his death. Same with Francel and his presence by Haurchefant's monument after 3.1. Then there's all these Haurchefant items and the overall significance of his death in the MSQ and him being constantly mentioned and quoted. I doubt they'd bring him back as a primal or as an Ascian puppet (although i would find it insanely heart wrenching and interesting story wise, seeing how he can be used as a tool against the WoL) as they already have a script laid out and i bet they put all these things in for the fans since he's so popular with the JP, EU and NA fanbase.
I doubt we'll see more of Haurchefant in the future unless they pull an ixion or Ascian possession, so getting to say goodbye was nice. I was scared that he might get the Moenbryda treatment but i got pleasantly surprised.

[Naria]

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar.

I agree with this. If fact Alphaunad's realization that the Warrior of Light is an actual person and not just a convenient implement of mass destruction in 3.0 is a large part of what has made me start to warm to his character. With most of the Scions regardless of how much I may like their character have never really felt like friends with the WoL. Allies yes, or coworkers perhaps but if the WoL suddenly lost a leg or the Echo tomorrow and was no longer able to fight, I don't feel they'd stand by them. Feel bad, sure. Send them a gift at Starlight, sure. Maybe drop by if they were in town and not too busy. Hauchefant on the other hand I feel would have done whatever he could have to help the WoL. While he certainly found the ability to fight primals . . . er . . . impressive, the sudden lack of that ability would not have changed his regard.

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

I've always felt that the surviving members of the Circle of Knowing share a comradery with each other that the other Scions are not a part of. This isn't actually a criticism of how the Scions have been portrayed given that even if you are a Legacy player you don't actually interact with them outside of "work" that much, so it is not surprising. I praise Hauchefant's character more since they managed to give him a more personal relationship with so little actual "screen time" when compared to the other characters.

Still I feel the game is poorer without Hauchefant or a truly personal friendship for the WoL. Perhaps with his sibling declaration in 3.1 the WoL will start to have a closer friendship Artoriel. Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

[Cilia]

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

...

Still I feel the game is poorer without Hauchefant or a truly personal friendship for the WoL. Perhaps with his sibling declaration in 3.1 the WoL will start to have a closer friendship Artoriel. Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

That's ultimately what it comes down to.

Minfilia, and by extension the rest of the Scions probably, used the rationale of "You are the Warrior of Light, Eorzea's hope!" to clarify why they were willing to sacrifice themselves to keep you safe.

Haurchefant just didn't want to see you get hurt because he cared about you. That's the kind of friend someone like the Warrior of Light needs, not someone who makes you shoulder the burden of being the hope of the world. Arguably that's why Alphinaud, Estinien, and Ysayle all become friends with the Warrior of Light to varying degrees - they treat you more like a person than a tool compared to how it was with the Scions' "Go kill this primal, Warrior of Light!"

Hopefully we do get more characters like Haurchefant, who are there to support you when you really need it and don't place too much pressure on you. Or send you on missions to kill primals all the time, then call you every five minutes and tell you to come back to the Waking Sands / Rising Stones.

I wouldn't mind developing a closer friendship with Artoriel; he seems like a good enough character, though I don't want him to be Haurchefant 2.0. I'm kind of worried about Emmanellain, though. And while the Warrior of Light may not have considered Haurchefant a literal brother, it may have been the other way around. Brother / sister from another mother, y'know what I'm sayin'?

[Emmanellain]

I wouldn't mind developing a closer friendship with Artoriel; he seems like a good enough character, though I don't want him to be Haurchefant 2.0. I'm kind of worried about Emmanellain, though.[/size]

To be honest i got a suspicious vibe when i watched Artoriel through the 3.1 storyline, if you go and rewatch the cutscenes his father frowns at him when he speaks right before you enter the vault and Emmanellain who is usually very carefree and fun was absolutely livid at his brother by the end of the MSQ patch. My Fiance and i sat down a whole afternoon and watched the cutscenes from Heavensward with Artoriel in them and we found his new behavior odd, it kinda feels like he's acting a little like his half brother to become more likeable to the WoL in 3.1, although as someone have already stated this might just be character development on his part. But I don't know.. he was smirking when he left the room to go after the angry Emmanellain..

But aside from that there's definetly something wrong brewing in the Fortemps household, you have to wonder why Edmont didn't even lift a brow when his oldest son offered to put down his sword in the vault while his middle child is still "warm in his coffin" as Lucia says. Rather he frowns when Artoriel speaks up as if what he said was the stupidest thing he had ever heard. Then to follow it up by gushing over Aymeric when they get out with his "I see much of Haurchefant in you" while Artoriel is right there behind him.
I don't know man, It seems fishy!

[Tenkuu]

Arguably that's why Alphinaud, Estinien, and Ysayle all become friends with the Warrior of Light to varying degrees - they treat you more like a person than a tool compared to how it was with the Scions' "Go kill this primal, Warrior of Light!"

I don't feel that it's right to call us a tool to them. If you want to say that anyone was a tool, it would more likely be the minor Scions hanging out in the storage room who get sent out on little missions. We are included among the major Scions, directly aided by them, and entrusted with some pretty important missions. They're not asking you to do anything without them, they're asking you to work with them, and since you're the one with both the Echo and the fighting abilities, your abilities are used in the best way by having you fight the Primals while the other Scions do what they excel at (other than normal combat) and gather information for you. Either way, we are never sent off on our own without any support.

Would it invalidate his death though? I mean we'd have an actual primal we would feel conflicted about putting down and it would be a smart move by the ascians since they're struggling in their fight against us. You'd have a primal that's more than just your typical Garuda, Titan, Ifrit ect. who are just sword fodder. Shiva was interesting and so was Ramuh since they were more complicated than just a standard primal. I mean I doubt SE would ever do it, but I don't see how it would invalidate his death considering he wouldn't be the Haurchefant we know but a mockery of his person, like Bahamut was according to Tiamat. In spirit Haurchefant would very much remain dead.

Keep in mind that no matter how conflicted we felt about Thancred's possession by Lahabrea (which of course Lahabrea used to twist the knife in the wound), we still would have been forced to kill him if we hadn't been able to save him. And no matter how one as the player might have felt about him, he was still a friend and comrade to their character, especially if they started in Ul'dah. You could say though that the primary reason for saving him was because Minfilia begged us to.

In this they showed that the soul becomes part of the great lifestream and maybe one day parts of it will go back and be reborn as another person. Later also we have the situation with Y`shtola who was in the lifestream for a short time but she said that she had a hard time to keep herself together.

These two things show me that this version of the afterlife does not include any kind of heaven. And that its quite likely that anyone that dies loose their own self and be united with the stream only to maybe one day be reborn again as a completely new person.

FFXIV's Lifestream is implied to work in much the same way as FFVII's, right? If so, we do know that strong souls keep their personalities and can freely navigate the Lifestream, such as Aerith and even Sephiroth (maybe even Zack to some extent), and other souls are merely part of the Lifestream, integrated into it, until they can be reborn. Since the Lifestream is the lifeblood of the planet in both series, it would make sense that rather than a meaningless heaven, it is instead a way for life to never truly end.

[Emmanellain]

Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

Well we know Haurchefant constantly blabbered on about the player to his family, but despite that i'm pretty sure Artoriel didn't know what kind of relationship the WoL had with Haurchefant. Artoriel himself did confirm that his relationship with his half brother was not a close one. Take that and the players reaction to his death into consideration and it's safe to say that Artoriel just figured you two were close in a sibling-kind-of-way. The idea that his bastard half brother might have been in a romantic relationship with the mighty warrior of light could be an idea so absurd that he probably didn't even consider it, seeing how station and birth is important in Ishgardian society.