Suggestion - Paladin Identity and new stance?

[winsock]

Other jobs can ressurect dead party members.

Other jobs can do a lot of things, like a 400 potency AoE.
What sets brez apart, should you get a 400 potency AoE while we're at it?

[Archaell]

Other jobs can do a lot of things, like a 400 potency AoE.
What sets brez apart, should you get a 400 potency AoE while we're at it?

8 seconds of cast time at price of 50% MP on job whose role is to be hit in the face.

[winsock]

8 seconds of cast time at price of 50% MP on job whose role is to be hit in the face.

On a class that excel at not dying and relies very little on that MP bar. You're out 2-3 skills realistically by the time u hit 0MP, and all of those skills are situational

But again, what makes brez so special? SMN can do a lot of things PLD can't do and neither can brez with Raise.

[Archaell]

On a class that excel at not dying and relies very little on that MP bar. You're out 2-3 skills realistically by the time u hit 0MP, and all of those skills are situational

But again, what makes brez so special? SMN can do a lot of things PLD can't do and neither can brez with Raise.

All the cross-class skills except Raise can be used, they might not be effective, but they are usable. Raise is the only one that can't be.

Right now paladin is behind other tanks so every little bit of additional utility helps. Battle Raise wouldn't change much, but it would be a step forward in making paladin more desirable for groups.

[winsock]

All the cross-class skills except Raise can be used, they might not be effective, but they are usable. Raise is the only one that can't be.

Right now paladin is behind other tanks so every little bit of additional utility helps. Battle Raise wouldn't change much, but it would be a step forward in making paladin more desirable for groups.

Raise is useable, just not during combat. There are situations that can occur where it would be useful for PLD to cast raise out of combat, most involve party members doing something stupid, but there are at least circumstances where it is beneficial. A WHM should never cast Physick or Ruin.

WAR is preferred over PLD bc it can meet the survivability requires of endgame while dealing more dmg. How is brez remotely a step in the right direction for solving this issue? Lol you'd be better off with that 400 potency thing from earlier.

[Kosmos992k]

Raise is useable, just not during combat. There are situations that can occur where it would be useful for PLD to cast raise out of combat, most involve party members doing something stupid, but there are at least circumstances where it is beneficial.

Except that no Paladin has Raise set as a cross class skill enabled because they cant use it. So the PLD would have to change their cross class skill configuration, wait for the skills to finish the GCD from the switch and then raise. Since they obviously have at least CNJ to use raise, it's quicker to switch to CNJ and do it and then switch back. I know, because if I find someone needing a raise, I have to do one or the other, and it is more straight forward to switch to my WHM.

I'm really not understanding why you ferl the need to stretch the limits of credibility to somehow prove Raise outside if battle is worth anything on PLD, when it absolutely is not.

[Reynhart]

Why?

We already told you why.
People wont chose PLD over any other tank because of this.

Since you like asking question, let me ask you one : Since "surviving" and "maintaining" enmity is only the basic requirement of a tank, what do you think PLD should offer on top of that to be on par with WAR and DRK ?

[winsock]

/cough Protect
/cough Stoneskin

Stoneskin didn't change, graniteskin did. Also, if you remember SE's reasoning on protect: it was changed because they where worried that proshell would reserve a position for the WHM in endgame parties.

Yeah...and removing PLD will remove all complain about PLD...maybe you could try real examples, for once...

PLDs still complain about prot and stoneskin. Brez is not going to stop them from complaining either and certainly won't in unbench them from endgame.

You question just seems weirder and weirder...And I won't answer it, because:
- If I say yes, you'll just say "Oh, my god, are you insane, you want everyone to be able to raise in battle ?!"
- If I say no, you'll say "Oh, why are you discriminating other classes ! You want PLD to be the special snowflake !!!"

^ close.
If yes, I would have posted something like: there is no point in having a discussion about brez because we well never agree.
If no, I would have had you clarify what factors you consider when determining who should and shouldn't have brez

We already told you why.
People wont chose PLD over any other tank because of this.

Since you like asking question, let me ask you one : Since "surviving" and "maintaining" enmity is only the basic requirement of a tank, what do you think PLD should offer on top of that to be on par with WAR and DRK ?

Ha, my own idea has factors I don't particularly care for but tell ya what, answer the question I posed to you from before about whether or not everyone should have brez and I'll let ya know.

[winsock]

I'm really not understanding why you ferl the need to stretch the limits of credibility to somehow prove Raise outside if battle is worth anything on PLD, when it absolutely is not.

It was in response a claim was made that raise is a crossclass skill that couldnt be used. It absolutely can be and there are scenarios that occur in game where it would be useful, but they're so few and far between that most PLDs would rather take something else. In contrast, a skill like Physick should never be cast by a WHM.

Also, this is the 3rd time you've avoided my question. Call me crazy but I prefer 2 way conversations. What would be the smallest buff or set of buffs that you believe would make PLD OP and why? Or if its easier, what factors do you take into consideration when deciding whether or not something is OP? I still question whether or not you have a line drawn anywhere.

[Reynhart]

Your exact words were "* SE letting a class have a skill does not automatically imply that the class should have a more powerful/useful version of that skill."
Well guess what, letting someone cross class Protect gave them the most powerful version of that skill at 3.0. And now, every job can use the most "potent" Stoneskin effect, even if it's after a nerf in potency.
And it's still stupid that CNJ and AST need a trait to be able to Raise in battle, whereas Arcanist don't.

Also, if you remember SE's reasoning on protect: it was changed because they where worried that proshell would reserve a position for the WHM in endgame parties.

Hmm, strange, they're worried about a single job having a de facto spot on every setup...I wonder where I have read that on the tank forum...well, I'm sure I'll remember.

If yes, I would have posted factoring like: there is no point in having a discussion about brez because we well never agree.

Yes, because you'll keep saying that it'd be a game breaker. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't chose a PLD over a DRK or WAR in the current meta even if the PLD could Raise in battle.

answer the question I posed to you from before about whether or not everyone should have brez and I'll let ya know

I already answered your question, but you have decided to not accept it. So, I'll say it again. No, not every job should be able to use Raise in battle...because not every job is able to cross-class it.
But every class should be able to if they chose so and if they were ready to sacrifice everything that their job offers to stay a class.

Your turn now.

Oh, and by the way

Also, while it isnt fair to have a skill that cant be used, it also isnt fair to have a trait that cant be used. What would you give WHM in exchange?

What did the other jobs receive when WHM was granted a new Stoneskin at level 50 ?