Any chance of an Enochian qol fix?

[Atoli]

Yeah, whenever I see a fight for the first time, I fall back into 2.0 mode for pretty much the entire fight. Mainly because even when I use Enochian, I get locked out of it constantly since I have no idea when the jumps, immunities and the like come up. That's part of learning though, and my dps is down by 30-50% so I don't think it's something to recommend doing past that learning stage.

Going back to the original topic of "fixes" for the class:
I think maybe the order in which you get your new skills could/should be different. The way it is now, you get lots of supportive abilities first which are kind of useless by itsself and only when you hit 60, they give you access to your new rotation and throw you into the new lvl 60 content right away without any time to get used to it (yes, yes, you can train your new rotation on a dummy but it will not teach you how to move with it and your first encounters will be incredibly stressful. Even I kept on thinking "omg I suck so much at this new BLM, I think I'll have to quit this class, this is so stressful, nobody is gonna take me into raids like this". It got better )
So I suggest to change it up a bit:
First you get Enochian. At lvl 52, it's just a nice, 30 seconds buff to your dmg, just like Raging Strikes, not much to think about here.
At 54, you get Fire4. You'll get used to it's casttime and relation to Astral Fire, and seeing the destruction you cause in those 30 seconds of Enochian uptime will make you wish you could keep on doing that :3
At 56, you get Ice 4, so now you can do the general 3.0 rotation. Still lots of level dungeon runs ahead to get used to it, and since you already know how the management of Fire 4 with the Astral Fire timer works, getting Ice 4 is welcome to extend the time you can throw giant fireballs at your target.
At 58 and 60 you get Augmentation and Ley Lines, skills that make it easier to work with the new rotation, but that are in no way needed. And since you had to do without them before, it will actually feel easier once you hit 60, not harder

Look at BRD, they get their gameplay-changing skill (WM) right at the start, so they can get used to the restriction of movement right away, and as they level up, they get the skills that make WM worth having as well as skills that just make things easier a bit.

[randysquirrel]

Main QOL fixes that come to mind are Enochian not registering immediately, always have to wait that fraction of a second for it to apply before I can cast fire IV.

And pots... whenever I use one it seems to be in the hands of the rng gods as to whether it actually goes off or not. Think someone said it's because pots can't be queued, but whatever it is, it's far clunkier than I'd like

[RiceisNice]

I believe Kailii meant if she stuck with the 2.0 rotation, as you suggested, she would be a detriment to her party, which is true. When it comes to DPS checks, taking out adds that need to die quickly, bosses etc... using the Enochian rotation is mandatory. That is the basic function of the job. Your suggestion that she not use it is really bad advice.

By just doing the 2.0 ST rotation, you may be able to clear some of the content if the other party members are really good, but that's only because they would basically be carrying you.

Don't take my post out of context, I specifically said that it'd be fine for non-raid (Ie, savage) content. Kahli even mentions that she's not going to attempt savage content, so I don't see why she'd want to push her dps with enochian if it's not fun. Unless you're failing at even 2.0 rotation, your dps won't be low enough to be considered a carry in 4 mans, normal alexander or savage.

Look at BRD, they get their gameplay-changing skill (WM) right at the start, so they can get used to the restriction of movement right away, and as they level up, they get the skills that make WM worth having as well as skills that just make things easier a bit.

BRD falls completely on the other side o the spectrum that WM is not steadily added on for something that adds a new layer of mechanics, is actually a dps loss when initially learned and obviously wasn't made in consideration with how they played in 2.0. None of their skills necessarily makes utilizing WM "easier", just justifies it; versus enochian or BotD where it gave you a flat buff just for using it (even if you didn't maintain it), and introducing skills that help you maintain said buffs, and more skills that uses the buff.

[Atoli]

Idk, I had plenty of BRDs without WM and BLMs who kept using the old rotation and their dps usually is somewhere around 400 dps (rarely up to 600) with 200+ equipment.
Having someone like that feels like a carry. Especially if we are talking about EX primals, where you wouldn't even get a clear if everyone brought such low dps._.

BRD falls completely on the other side o the spectrum that WM is not steadily added on for something that adds a new layer of mechanics, is actually a dps loss when initially learned and obviously wasn't made in consideration with how they played in 2.0.

that's a whole different topic and I'm not gonna start here how some people keep whining about how WM doesn't fit their job yada yada, it was just an example about how it makes more sense to implement a game-changing mechanic early to give people time to get used to it. Especially since it wouldn't mean a dps loss for BLM at all.

[RiceisNice]

Idk, I had plenty of BRDs without WM and BLMs who kept using the old rotation and their dps usually is somewhere around 400 dps (rarely up to 600) with 200+ equipment.
Having someone like that feels like a carry. Especially if we are talking about EX primals, where you wouldn't even get a clear if everyone brought such low dps._.

.

If they're doing sub 400 dps, something is wrong on their end and I doubt it'd increase that much if they had used enochian or WM (and probably less in the case of WM because of the loss of auto attacks). I could hit 490-500 on my BRD by just spamming heavy shot with no other abilties.

that's a whole different topic and I'm not gonna start here how some people keep whining about how WM doesn't fit their job yada yada, it was just an example about how it makes more sense to implement a game-changing mechanic early to give people time to get used to it. Especially since it wouldn't mean a dps loss for BLM at all.

My point is that it's a bad example. Even in the case of WM, introducing it early doesn't mean anything if it has no reason of using it in the first place, because not only did it not increase your damage, but actually lowered your damage in a non-AoE setting, versus enochian where it slowly introduces ways for you to use it effectively, from it giving a flat 5% buff, to maintaining it and eventually using it to boost your damage tremendously. Their new skills don't work off WM other than the fact that it simply requires it, not help sustain it or anything else.

On paper, you're far off better introducing something gradually. You can't necessarily do something with a "game changing mechanics" early with an existing job that's had 2 years of existance in one skill. A comparison would be them giving you blizzard IV, fire IV and enochian all at the same time as one big package and you're left stumbling all over the place without the gradual introduction. WM's only layer of complexity doesn't come from managing the surrounding of it... just making the cast times work with you so they really can't add multiple layers to it where it becomes a gradual thing. But again, it's own problem is that WM by itself isn't a good ability because it can't even amount to a DPS increase for using it on an average basis.

[Garotte14]

Idk, I had plenty of BRDs without WM and BLMs who kept using the old rotation and their dps usually is somewhere around 400 dps (rarely up to 600) with 200+ equipment.

But this is exactly my point. BLMs could do 500+ dps in i130 gear at level 50. And that's mediocre blms. So you're telling me in HW using the 2.0 rotation, +10 levels, +70 item levels, +20 weapon damage, and almost double the int is netting them lower dps. I'm not buying it. And if they are pulling those kinds of numbers, they're absolutely terrible. You could give them a permant enochian toggle that never falls off and it still wouldn't help because they obviously don't care. Which brings me back to my original point, it doesn't need fixing. There is nothing wrong with that class.

[RiceisNice]

But this is exactly my point. BLMs could do 500+ dps in i130 gear at level 50. And that's mediocre blms. So you're telling me in HW using the 2.0 rotation, +10 levels, +70 item levels, +20 weapon damage, and almost double the int is netting them lower dps. I'm not buying it. And if they are pulling those kinds of numbers, they're absolutely terrible. You could give them a permant enochian toggle that never falls off and it still wouldn't help because they obviously don't care. Which brings me back to my original point, it doesn't need fixing. There is nothing wrong with that class.

Just to clarify, there has been sort of a stat squish on secondary stats when 3.0 came out. A ilvl 130 BLM at level 50 during 2.5 will do more damage than a ilvl130 BLM at level 50 during 3.0. It's either that or the stat degrading begins as soon as you hit 51, since you're not pulling the same number as you did in say, FCoB (no echo of course) as you are in early heavensward dungeons. The point still stands though, 400 dps is something you can easily manage at lvl 54 in sohm al...

[Kailii]

Don't take my post out of context, I specifically said that it'd be fine for non-raid (Ie, savage) content. Kahli even mentions that she's not going to attempt savage content, so I don't see why she'd want to push her dps with enochian if it's not fun. Unless you're failing at even 2.0 rotation, your dps won't be low enough to be considered a carry in 4 mans, normal alexander or savage.

Well that's sort, if Enochian isn't fun and is the best way to play, why would I want to play BLM? I at least like to try and do whatever I'm doing to the fullest, especially in a group based game. So I'd rather be miserable and fumble with Enochian than just satisfy myself with doing the old (fun) rotation. Which points me to another job. Which is another problem in that I don't really find others in this game that compelling, but that's for another thread.

[Eloah]

I haven't read every post, but enochian seems okay to me, the only QoL change I could "see" and I know people might flame me for this is extending the duration from 30 seconds to 60 which would make the new mechanics involved easier to maintain. But since the duration changes the CD would need to as well, but I would suggest a 90 second CD, only, maybe also adjust how Blizzard 4 affects the refresh timer like maybe 10 seconds less over 5. This way we still have the 30 second buffer like the current enochian but having the times set to 60 and 90 would help make our rotation not feel so tight. I'd say astral fire and umbral ice durations might need to chnage too, but if enochian chnages like this , those shouldn't be an issue.

[Ishkar]

It disturbs me how many people think in a purely meta-mentality kind of way.
I've read so many posts on these forums, and replies so often come in the form of "it works" / "learn to play" / "the dps isn't bad" / etc.

It is my belief that outside of progression content right after release -where maximizing total group DPS and performance is crucial- any job is viable for any situation. And yet that seems to be the only basis of argument that most people bring to the table here. People seem to forget that the relevance of meta-content doesn't apply to the general gameplay outside of that meta-content. And meta-content is a very limited portion of the total gaming experience for many of us.


Yes, Enochian works. Yes, you can learn to manage Enochian. Yes, learning each fight inside-out will make you a better Black Mage. Yes, practicing your timing with Enochian will make handling it more fluent. But I think that way before we start thinking about those things, we should be thinking... What is Enochian (and the other new changes to Black Mage as well) bringing to the job? How is it making the job more interesting or fun to play? How is it further extending the basis of the job that we got in 2.0?

To me, it seems like it fails in all of these points. The way Black Mage feels in 3.0 as opposed to 2.0 is that it's exactly the same class, only now you need Enochian up as often as possible. Nothing more. We got Fire IV and Blizzard IV, which feels exactly the same as Fire III and Blizzard III back in 2.0. Out of all the possible additions they could have made, they chose to give us more of what we already had too much of. While I accept that some people enjoy it and approve of it, it feels incredibly lazy in terms of design to me. Some people mentioned Dragoons being in the same spot, but as I also play Dragoon, I severely disagree. Blood of the Dragon changes the Dragoon rotation much more dynamically than Enochian does. Also, Blood of the Dragon doesn't lock you out of skills you received earlier! You're still using your old combos, you just have an extra 4th ability to end each one, as opposed to Fire III and Blizzard III losing effectiveness (and becoming less fun to use). And Geirskogul is an extra ability to use on your oGCD, as well as make the timer component of BotD more interesting (which BLM has no equivalent for). And what's more, it feels rewarding to keep it up. There's a certain sense of achievement for keeping up BotD for an entire fight, and you feel it each time you pull off your 4th combo chain or a Geirskogul. When you lose it, you actually feel the loss in your playing. But Enochian doesn't add any flavor or dynamic to the old Black Mage rotation. Just instead of version III, you're now using version IV of a spell. It also severely diminished the appeal of Fire III or Blizzard III, as you now feel like it's a 'filler' spell you just use to provide a basis for your Fire IV and Blizzard IV. And when Enochian falls, you feel upset for having to use them. At the end of a fight, I'm not especially happy I kept Enochian up. I just feel like I did what I should have been doing because the game design forced me to. That's the problem with Enochian for me, the fact that it's uninspired and a terribly boring addition to a job that already suffered from a lack of diversity in the first place. I know a lot of people complained about this prior to 3.0, and I also know a lot of Black Mages who gave up on the job after 3.0 failed to provide 'more' to the job (me being one of them).

As for me, I won't be asking for them to change anything as I know that there will always be differences in opinions and experiences. I realize some people like and approve of the additions. I simply stopped playing the job, even though I've always loved the glass-cannon Mage archetype in any MMO I've played. But it bothers me to see opinions dismissed purely because "it works." I think a lot of people would benefit if they changed their priority from: Does it work --> Is it fun, to: Is it fun --> Does it work.

There is more to MMORPGs than min-maxing and parsing highest.