What Makes a Paladin? An Essay on Paladin Identity

[Izsha]

Part 9f the trouble with identity is westerners have an idea of paladins, while in eastern culture there isn't really an equivalent. Paladins are a very westernized fantasy idea. This whole notion of a holy knight using white magic to defend the weak and fight the forces of darkness is unique to us. That's why in every FF anytime paladin is used as a class, in the original Japanese design it's just called 'knight'. It's just a heavily armored warrior often using a variety of weapons (not just sword n board like pld tropes).

My point is, it's less of an identity crisis and more of a mistranslation between an eastern developer and a western audience. These aren't fantasy paladins a la warcraft (blizzard, western company), Arthur (western mythology), high fantasy (rooted in stuff like D&D). The fantasy paladin we have come to know as a cultural icon from king Arthur to warcraft is not a part of eastern culture, or if it is it us certainly as flat and 1 dimensional as the avg western Joe's comical interpretation of what a 'ninja' is.

We're projecting what we think a pld is and I doesn't align. That's not an identity crisis. It's a difference of opinion based on culture.

[Jpec07]

Part 9f the trouble with identity is westerners have an idea of paladins, while in eastern culture there isn't really an equivalent. Paladins are a very westernized fantasy idea. This whole notion of a holy knight using white magic to defend the weak and fight the forces of darkness is unique to us. That's why in every FF anytime paladin is used as a class, in the original Japanese design it's just called 'knight'. It's just a heavily armored warrior often using a variety of weapons (not just sword n board like pld tropes).

My point is, it's less of an identity crisis and more of a mistranslation between an eastern developer and a western audience. These aren't fantasy paladins a la warcraft (blizzard, western company), Arthur (western mythology), high fantasy (rooted in stuff like D&D). The fantasy paladin we have come to know as a cultural icon from king Arthur to warcraft is not a part of eastern culture, or if it is it us certainly as flat and 1 dimensional as the avg western Joe's comical interpretation of what a 'ninja' is.

We're projecting what we think a pld is and I doesn't align. That's not an identity crisis. It's a difference of opinion based on culture.

Even so, then, it should require SE to make even more of an effort to identify what a Paladin is supposed to be. If it's a foreign concept to their native audience on the JP servers, then they are even more responsible to build a solid, compelling identity with a story to match. From what you're saying, the fact that the establishment of PLD identity in FFXIV is so lax is even more of an embarrassment, because they are not only failing their American and European audiences, but their east-Asian audiences as well.

We as Americans may come in with preconceived notions, but those notions would wash away if they just showed us in any solid way what a Paladin is supposed to be.

But you may be right--because the concept of a Paladin is so foreign to the Japanese culture and mindset, they don't know how to identify it. So I guess if they don't understand it, they need to step up and figure it out, because the job is suffering for it.

I'm not saying PLD is broken right now, because it's functional. But I am saying that PLD deserves a more solid identity as told by SE. We have very little to go by from them as to what a PLD is supposed to be, which I highly suspect is why the job is so bland right now.

[Izsha]

Even so, then, it should require SE to make even more of an effort to identify what a Paladin is supposed to be. If it's a foreign concept to their native audience on the JP servers, then they are even more responsible to build a solid, compelling identity with a story to match. From what you're saying, the fact that the establishment of PLD identity in FFXIV is so lax is even more of an embarrassment, because they are not only failing their American and European audiences, but their east-Asian audiences as well.

We as Americans may come in with preconceived notions, but those notions would wash away if they just showed us in any solid way what a Paladin is supposed to be.

But you may be right--because the concept of a Paladin is so foreign to the Japanese culture and mindset, they don't know how to identify it. So I guess if they don't understand it, they need to step up and figure it out, because the job is suffering for it.

I'm not saying PLD is broken right now, because it's functional. But I am saying that PLD deserves a more solid identity as told by SE. We have very little to go by from them as to what a PLD is supposed to be, which I highly suspect is why the job is so bland right now.

I guess my point is that the Japanese version is just knight. They make it in concept closer to a samurai. Armored warrior who defends a higher cast and willingly puts themselves in harms way to protect their charge. In a general sense, the pld story, the abilities etc all line up with that. That's why I say it's a disagreement not an identity crisis.

war: unleashes and struggles to control inner beast to help others with the power of their inner beast. Lots of bursty raw power used in tanking style. Neutral good.

Drk: uses power of darkness and works outside the law to defend the weak and dish out justice. Chaotic good. Gameplay based around managing the dark powrer.

Pld: elite soldier of the upper class. Part of the lawful institution. defender of the upper cast. Abilities focused on protecting their charge with cover, buffs, heals, stuns, blind, pacification etc. But not raw power. Lawful good.

Really glossing over but you get the idea. The problem is its not the holy knight idea westerners have, and 2, it's not conflicted or edgy like war/drk, ad 3 most of the kit is enfeebles that don't work on boss tier mobs in practice.

I personally don't see a conflict conceptually. The implementation is kinda haphazard but there's plenty of commentary on that front.

[Zykor]

Part 9f the trouble with identity is westerners have an idea of paladins, while in eastern culture there isn't really an equivalent. Paladins are a very westernized fantasy idea. This whole notion of a holy knight using white magic to defend the weak and fight the forces of darkness is unique to us.

Cecil would like to have a word with you.

[Reynhart]

This whole notion of a holy knight using white magic to defend the weak and fight the forces of darkness is unique to us. That's why in every FF anytime paladin is used as a class, in the original Japanese design it's just called 'knight'. It's just a heavily armored warrior often using a variety of weapons (not just sword n board like pld tropes).

Except, that, in most FF games, Knights can use White Magic and/or Cover the weak.

And, just last Zykor said, Cecil is the perfect archetype of Paladin.

I would love a battle raise but maybe one step at a time.

They only have to remove the stupid trait from CNJ (And AST). After all, why Arcanist, a native DPS, can Raise in combat while the native healers can't until they gain a trait ?

[Launched]

They only have to remove the stupid trait from CNJ (And AST). After all, why Arcanist, a native DPS, can Raise in combat while the native healers can't until they gain a trait ?

SMN, SCH and WHM are all limited by MP. Using Raise takes a big chunk of their MP, and the only way to restore that MP is abilities with 60s+ cooldowns, or by using up stacks that could be used to increase healing/DPS. A PLD with Raise would be broken because it has unlimited MP thanks to Riot Blade and Sheltron, and pretty much nothing else to use that MP on. At that point you might as well give BLM Raise too.

[Reynhart]

SMN, SCH and WHM are all limited by MP. Using Raise takes a big chunk of their MP, and the only way to restore that MP is abilities with 60s+ cooldowns, or by using up stacks that could be used to increase healing/DPS. A PLD with Raise would be broken because it has unlimited MP thanks to Riot Blade and Sheltron, and pretty much nothing else to use that MP on. At that point you might as well give BLM Raise too.

Do you realize how much DPS would a PLD lose to cast Raise (Without Swiftcast, as oppposed to every other job who can cast it) and by spamming Riot Blade to gain MP back for the next Raise ?

I don't really think you understand what "broken" means, in terms of gameplay.

[Jpec07]

Cover: reduced to 10 second duration but now takes all damage (phys/mag) from another party member. Cooldown is still 120.
Tempered Will: cooldown reduced to 150 seconds.
Clemency: cast time reduced to 2.5. Sks affects this.
Divine Veil: exact same but Clemency can now trigger its effect.
Sheltron: blocks the next physical attack and any party members behind will also receive the block reduction. 3-5 yalms behind the Paladin. Mp partial restored.

Only change I might suggest would be reducing Tempered Will to 45s--that, or expand its usefulness to break almost any CC status out there. It doesn't really have a mitigation function, and only serves to help PLD maintain better boss control in fights with knockbacks (since they won't have to reposition themselves).

I don't think a lore change is going to fix anything beyond purpose, which might be part of the point behind your essay here.

I think having a solid story would more serve as a good indication that we have a solid identity as a job. Just like getting Oathkeeper back makes the Sultansworn feel better about themselves, so too would a good story with a solid identity help us go about our jobs with renewed pride.

SMN, SCH and WHM are all limited by MP. Using Raise takes a big chunk of their MP, and the only way to restore that MP is abilities with 60s+ cooldowns, or by using up stacks that could be used to increase healing/DPS. A PLD with Raise would be broken because it has unlimited MP thanks to Riot Blade and Sheltron, and pretty much nothing else to use that MP on. At that point you might as well give BLM Raise too.

It would have the same effect for PLD if they made it share a cooldown with Hallowed Ground. A sort of "you can use this, but it'll cost you."

Do you realize how much DPS would a PLD lose to cast Raise (Without Swiftcast, as oppposed to every other job who can cast it) and by spamming Riot Blade to gain MP back for the next Raise?

About as much as being able to spam Clemency in an off-tanking/off-healing role. But PLD isn't (and shouldn't be) about big numbers. If we can take the MP hit for the healers by battle-rezzing someone in their stead, that's just that much more healing that they can pump out to the party.

[Reynhart]

It would have the same effect for PLD if they made it share a cooldown with Hallowed Ground. A sort of "you can use this, but it'll cost you."

Or, you know, PLD could deserve something useful (other than basic tankiness) without everybody taking their pitchforks against it.

- Hey, guys, WAR can have unlimited TP and compete with DPS numbers
- No big deal !
- Hey, guys, DRK can have unlimited MP for 20s every 40s and spam AoE leech for virtual immortality
- No big deal !
- Hey, guys, PLD can raise someone else by standing still for 8 seconds and spending 1/3rd of their MP pool
- BROKEN ! NERF ! NERF !

Please...

[Reynhart]

About as much as being able to spam Clemency in an off-tanking/off-healing role. But PLD isn't (and shouldn't be) about big numbers. If we can take the MP hit for the healers by battle-rezzing someone in their stead, that's just that much more healing that they can pump out to the party.

So, let me get this straight.
PLD isn't about big damage numbers...On that, I totally agree
But from other comments on this very thread:

• PLD should not be about healing
• PLD should not be about raising
• PLD should not be about being always useful.

So, PLD should be about...just tanking ? Something every tank MUST be able to do, or else people will bitch about PLD being "too tanky" ?

How much must we face before people realize it makes no sense to even play the job as the game is now...?