I don't want to tank dungeons anymore...

[Suirieko]

I spend A LOT of time in DF. I enjoy doing dungeons a lot. I've seen everyone leave. However, I will admit my perspective is skewed. I usually don't have to deal with bad tanks because I'm simply the tank. When I'm a healer, I don't have to deal with bad healers because I'm the healer. So I see far more healers leaving parties, but your examples were bad because everyone left those. If you completed once, you didn't want to do it again.

Granted they were extreme examples, but it is still on point. I've found that tanks are more likely to leave first than anyone else, and more often than not, when tanks leave first, usually other players follow.

[Skivvy]

Why should we tolerate tanks that do the bare minimum when we do not accept dps and healers doing the bare minimum?
The infamous "ice mage" is also doing his job, dealing dmg. The dmg is indefinitely lower than what a BLM could put out, but technically, he's still doing what a dps is supposed to do.
Yet most of the community rages about players like that and would not put up with such behaviour. Why is it acceptable for a tank to only do the bare minimum of holding threat on a small group of monsters?
Once again, it boils down to the "but we have few tanks!"-privilege.

My comments should be taken within the context of the thread. People are complaining about slow tanks. If a tank is holding hate on each pull, that is his job. His job is not to do speed-run sized pulls. If he wants to, and the group can manage, cool. But speed-runs should not be an expectation of a tank. There are plenty of reasons why a tank may only pull a single set at a time.

I'm so tired of having the infamous "ice mage" argument brought up. "Lets bring in this miniscule subset of players and use them as a valid argument!" Nope. When ice mages become mainstream, then maybe we can have that conversation.

[Pells]

And this what a good tank would do
1. Have a look at the party's jobs and HP levels
2. If nobody speaks up, do a small pull first if you get no caster, or the group ilvl looks questionable; do a medium pull if you got at least one caster
3. Base on the result of the first pull to decide the pulling pace afterwards: if the member all know what they are doing, pull as many as possible (which more than often won't happen); on the other extreme, if nobody knows how to aoe, or the healer is totally incompetent, pull group by group

That is what a good tank does. The problem is after the tank does this, the dps or healer decide that one group at a time doesn't meet the meta (even though that particular group can't handle it) and goes ahead and pulls more for the tank.

[Sicno]

There's no such thing as a normal pace. If anything were, it'd probably be the meta lol

If people are still gonna argue that slow pulls are how the devs designed it, then come with a dev quote.

...You're beyond hope.

[Adylala]

Haha. This reminders me the first dungeon I did as a healer. I didn"t know what to do, I didn"t know what tanks and dps mean as well. I was just like aggroing all and then I was asking why I always die. But my party were kind and explained to me. After that everything went well ♥

[KingOfAbyss]

We, damage dealers, are so tired of doing the same dungeons over, and over, and over, just for the sake of Tomestone of Esoterics, or whatever the current weekly capped tomestones are, that we just want to get it over with so we can move on to something else, that's possibly more fun. We're not being divas, we're not being madonnas, we just want to get things overwith because we're tired (go to sleep), and we're far more understanding if there's a presence of a newbie tank or even newbie healer, (which is fairly rare IMO), and in those cases, it'll be understanding and we'll be more than happy to help. At least that's my approach to things.

A good tank knows how much the party can handle, and pull trash mobs size based on that. Not pull based on the preference.I mean, after all, it IS About team work. Check who you got in the party, and if you feel confident, go all wild. It might actually be fun and fast.

After all, no one wants an hour-long Neverreap.

Sooo.. don't you think we, the TANKS, are being fed up as much as DPS doing the same dungeons over-and-over? (smh)

After reading the rest, seems you are decent at pacing people and being diligent. But if we take 40 mins with me for Neverreap, it might be as well that undergeared, not knowing what to do in that dungeon, DPS on 2 different mobs if not AOEing.. Lots into account. SE put 90 mins. doing it under half the required time, I'm good! Woot! ^^

You said it; it's a team effort. Let the Tank do it's Tanking, Focus of bringing down the Foes down, healer will watch over us, FUN! ^^

the Vault: when the last boss starts to cast the fire balls (like the nails with Ifrit), I switch to Sword Oath to help DPS them, then before he cast, I switch back to Shield Oath.

Does that makes me good, bad? I do it because I want to help everyone, because it's a team effort. But I am having fun doing it so lol

[SonKevin]

Haha. This reminders me the first dungeon I did as a healer. I didn"t know what to do, I didn"t know what tanks and dps mean as well. I was just like aggroing all and then I was asking why I always die. But my party were kind and explained to me. After that everything went well ♥

I remember the first time I tanked in this game. I had never tanked in any other MMO. My first dungeon went horrible. I couldn't hold hate and I didn't have shield throw. My party was not kind and I spent a lot of time reading forums and such to learn how to tank. Oh well, now I've played every class and have an idea on how ever class should ideally be played.

[Suirieko]

There's no such thing as a normal pace. If anything were, it'd probably be the meta lol

If people are still gonna argue that slow pulls are how the devs designed it, then come with a dev quote.

Mmmm yeeeeeah no. I'm gonna have to disagree with that. I don't think that's how it works either.

Admittedly, the newer dungeons are better designed and more balanced when it comes to pacing than older dungeons. there's smaller groups of mobs, but it can still be pulled in large groups.

If the tank is new, or undergeared, I'm not gonna expect them to pull everything, and I'm certainly not going to push them on.

Same can be said for healers, if they can't heal well, again I'm not going to expect tanks to pull everything.


I like faster dungeons, because most of the time I just want to get it over with, yes, but at the same time, I don't like being unreasonable to newbies.

If they are new tanks with decent gears (like for example, proto-gordian/Eso/Void arks) I will encourage them to pull more, and explain that I can deal with a large group of mobs very quickly. (Since I usually play as summoner in dungeons).

It's all about teamwork, and knowing how well your team can handle the situation. A simple examination of everyone's gears can give you a good clue (but of course it's also all about the skills too).

Bottomline: if you're a very well geared (at least ilevel 200 or higher), and you expect to do dungeons very slowly, you're actually being a literal drag, and slowing the party down, and therefore, hurting the party overall. If I see you in proto gordian gear, or even in gordian gear, and you expect to do dungeons slowly, you're just being a complete dick, whether you're doing it on purpose or not.

[Skivvy]

Just as a personal side note: I would love to try tanking again, but I just don't have the thick skin for it. If the attitudes found in these forums truly carry over to the game, I'd be a wreck.

It's been ages for me, and I am pretty certain I would be one of the more cautious tanks doing smaller pulls until I got the hang of it. That's just how learning goes. The chances of me ever bringing my tank out for anyone outside of my FC is incredibly slim. I imagine there are plenty of others out there who feel the same as I do, and that's just a shame.

Kudos to all those who tank for us

[KingOfAbyss]

Funny we should talk about holding groups "hostages."

One of the bigger changes to DF, overtime, was increasing the penalty to leaving/withdrawing, was due to a great number of tanks leaving just because they're not satisfied with the dungeons that get rolled out. This was very problematic when the original Pharos Sirius came out.. 7 times out of 10, the tank would just up and leave when they land that place. This situation repeated when Steps of Faith would come out and it would frequently turns up in trial roulette, and what do tanks do? "Lol. I'm the tank, I'm rare, I don't have to do this." *leaves duty*.

Yup I agree, I've seen it myself.. I'm ashamed of those Tanks, hopefully never crossing paths again.

When I get into an instance, I stick to it unless it's OBVIOUS we won't make it, or.. a real-life issues, which is about 1% chances? And I'm sure I'm far from being unique.

We have every type of people in here; some TANKs just don't care about others, some Healers, some DPS..