Lets nerf WAR :D

[Freyyy]

So to summarize your wall of text, you are saying I don't have gears, I haven't tried end game contents. So I have no idea what I'm talking about. The buffs doesn't have ANY contributing factors to ANY warriors acting elitist and snobby?

To summarize, yes (and that's not what I call a wall of text lol). And by "Warriors acting elitist and snobby" I don't see what you're talking about. People act "elitist and snobby" whatever their job is. I really don't understand the thing you're trying to say here and I don't really understand the problem with the fact of being elitist either.

And READ CAREFULLY, I've never said or even suggested tanks that fashions strength accessory are automatically assholes. Also, I've never said dps required from tank = devs fucking up. Take the time to read first...

Oh I read what you said otherwise I wouldn't quote you and answer about it. You exactly said what you claim not having said. But it's not the first time that you suggest people to "take the time to read" because appearently we "don't understand" what you're saying. Maybe you're the one who is failing to formulate his ideas ? Because everything we answered to you was actually accurate answers to your writings. I personally think that you just don't have any arguments to defend your point, so it's easier for you to tell us that we don't understand instead of just doing what honest beings do when they're told that they're wrong : shut the hell up, learn from this experience, and move on.

In order for you to understand why your idea of nerfing WAR DPS to the ground is stupid I'm gonna explain shortly : It would nerf both their tankiness (since a lot comes from their lifestealing abilities) and their main raid utility which is the DPS they bring. And it would go completely against what SE originally wanted and still wants for WAR : being the tank that wrecks shit.

[Hurp]

In a world... Where everything is perfectly balanced.

[NFaelivrin]

Since it seems the devs are completely unwilling to actually improve the other two tanks to WAR's level nerfing WAR might be the most realistic solution at this point, which won't happen anyway since everything is obviously working as intended for them.

[Syzygian]

Since it seems the devs are completely unwilling to actually improve the other two tanks to WAR's level nerfing WAR might be the most realistic solution at this point, which won't happen anyway since everything is obviously working as intended for them.

At this point with what some skilled DRKs are pulling off in savage, you'd have to nerf them too. PLD needs some raid DPS and its utilities fixed. I've come to the conclusion since authoring this thread that DRK and WAR are actually on very equal footing with one losing out to the other in certain circumstances and vice versa, and a specific nerf to either is highly unlikely to be in the cards. PLD just needs some love and it'll get it as hard as this forum is kicking and screaming about it. 3.2 is going to be a hell of a patch.

[eagledorf]

No, lol. DRK and WAR aren't even close to equal footing.

WAR: Never runs out of TP
DRK: Runs out right away in Grit, somewhat slower out

WAR: OT DPS is always that high
DRK: Needs to get hit for MP and procs

WAR: IB works for Magic and Physical
DRK: DM magic only

WAR: 3-4 IB a minute+half a Thrill
DRK: 1 DM and 2/3 of a Shadowskin a minute

WAR: 30% DMG cooldown every 2 minutes+20% of a full stack of Wrath
DRK: 30% DMG cooldown every 3 minutes

WAR: 100% parry rate every 90s+20% of a full stack of Wrath
DRK: +30% parry rate every minute

WAR: Wrath grants passive parry buff
DRK: No passive mitigation

WAR: Slashing debuff and damage down debuff on demand on up to 3 targets.
DRK: Damage down on parry proc for one target only

WAR: Burst self-healing on demand+weak self-heal tied to combo
DRK: Self-heal tied to combo only

True, WAR loses IB if they turn off the tank stance, but if they need it they can switch in off GCD smoothly so it doesn't actually prevent them from using their DPS stance.

DRK is helped by the current content, but looking that their abilities, WAR is excellent in a much, much broader range of content than DRK is.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

At this point with what some skilled DRKs are pulling off in savage, you'd have to nerf them too. PLD needs some raid DPS and its utilities fixed. I've come to the conclusion since authoring this thread that DRK and WAR are actually on very equal footing with one losing out to the other in certain circumstances and vice versa, and a specific nerf to either is highly unlikely to be in the cards. PLD just needs some love and it'll get it as hard as this forum is kicking and screaming about it. 3.2 is going to be a hell of a patch.

Square doesn't give a shit about Paladin, they never have since 2.1. It's only becoming more and more evident with how terrible they're trying to cover the issue up with band aid fixes left and right. We're not going to be fixed until everyone pushes Square's shit in and demands that they fix the situation they've created. 3.2 won't bring anything to Paladin as of right now, I guarantee it.

[Freyyy]

Square doesn't give a shit about Paladin, they never have since 2.1. It's only becoming more and more evident with how terrible they're trying to cover the issue up with band aid fixes left and right. We're not going to be fixed until everyone pushes Square's shit in and demands that they fix the situation they've created. 3.2 won't bring anything to Paladin as of right now, I guarantee it.

We'll see my friend, we'll see. If 3.2 doesn't bring anything for you Paladin fellows, I'm sure all the tank community including us, Dark Knights and Warriors, will scream for you.

[eagledorf]

Incidentally, to respond to the actual title of this thread:

I wouldn't like to see WAR "nerfed" directly, but I do want to see some reworking of the job to become more in line with the other tanks. Right now WAR is largely superior as an OT and due to the fact that they benefit from using their defensive buffs for DPS and do not benefit from tanking very much (the reflect from Vengeance being the only thing), they've basically become a glorified DPS that only tanks if they have to.

I think it would be a healthy thing to reduce the potency on Fell Cleave and move it elsewhere. Making Fell Cleave and Inner Beast closer in potency would encourage the stance-dance-to-mitigate play that SE says they imagined instead of the avoid-Defiance-like-cancer play we have now.

Right now WAR in terms of DPS has:

The highest OT DPS in vacuum
The lowest potency gain for tanking period
Unlimited TP

It would be good to adjust it not so much because OMG WAR OP, but because this tends to force the other tank into the MT role and WAR into the OT role. It would also be good if WAR had resource management, but I think we're more likely to see the other two tanks get more and more TP buffs gradually until none of the tanks ever run out of TP.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

We'll see my friend, we'll see. If 3.2 doesn't bring anything for you Paladin fellows, I'm sure all the tank community including us, Dark Knights and Warriors, will scream for you.

I'm gonna' call everyone's bluff on this statement. People are already dismissing the Paladin issue solely based on the Shield Swipe change. The community, in two months time, will have forgotten everything that has been talked about here, they'll forget every single piece of numerical data that has been shown directly exposing the issue, they'll forget just why Warrior fits in every single thing despite being just the "DPS tank" that's "more squishy" than the rest.

If I'm pissing people off, good, that means you won't forget now. That means you'll think back to when I said we're given nothing but band aid fixes or explicitly catered to for just a short while and then forgotten again. I wouldn't be surprised if it ACTUALLY gets worse for Paladins in the future. I'm tired of standing up and screaming to be heard....and now I'm gonna' log off and try to do....something, I don't know anymore.

[Isius]

We'll see my friend, we'll see. If 3.2 doesn't bring anything for you Paladin fellows, I'm sure all the tank community including us, Dark Knights and Warriors, will scream for you.

Unlikely, a few will, but most don't understand why Pld is weak, since they do not raid, and of course you will get those people that will just "Lol, good thing I am not you, but too bad", mostly warrior players atm.

But yes, Plds were asking for buffs in the early weeks of Alexander Savage. This is when several forums appeared with Plds wanting buffs to dps/aggro/utilities because they all felt lacking in Savage. Responses we got was, "Git Gud" "You have your shield only party" "HALLOWED GROUND." You had your time in 2.0" There was even a very active poster that downright tried to single handly keep Pld gimp, and tried to stop Pld needs buff threads, but showing the evidence "HOW MUCH STRONGER PLD WAS TO THE OTHER CLASSES" with little data on actual combat situtations with Pld. So I don't think 3.2 will be much different if Pld remains gimped.

It also really doesn't help that Yoshida himself is saying this stuff too, like Pld does less dps because of shield/HG, and is best defensive tank. Yet Pld dies when there is a continuous amounts of magical dmg...look at the first floor of Alexnader Savage THE FIRST FLOOR HG becomes just another common cd you use in a rotation, and let allow if you get the rarity of having 4 jumps...oops Pld has no more cds...and dies while other tanks are fine...best defensive tank...not really, so Pld doing less dmg doesn't justify itself at all in magical encounters. I just find it really messed up that Yoshida prefers to go by this FoTM tank garbage, then balancing the tanks. If this doesn't change Drk might be the next victim in 3.2, and Yoshida will just say well...Drk just doesn't fit in the content, but the job is fine, and so doesn't need a buff...wait a month or more to get better gear to do a encounter that the other tanks already did a month ago. Balance!