Do the devs know what they really want to do with raids ?

[Zumi]

fun fact : healers aren't supposed to dps. They were given accuracy in 2.3 because it was required to meet SCoB savage dps checks at the taime, and carried on afterwards. Then they looked at healer dps and the fact that FCoB got wrecked because of that, and backpedaled like crazy on the fact that healers should dps.

Have you not done savage ? They basically require healers to dps as much as possible and tanks to use a lot of str acc due to the incredibly high dps checks. It's apparent they did want healers to be dpsing as much as they can.

[Risvertasashi]

Have you not done savage ? They basically require healers to dps as much as possible and tanks to use a lot of str acc due to the incredibly high dps checks. It's apparent they did want healers to be dpsing as much as they can.

No, it's purely meta. The devs have said healer DPS is not considered in encounter design. And more recently it sounds like they're not so happy with so much emphasis on even tank DPS.

[Kuroyasha]

As an ongoing project, they have to adjust. They implement an idea based off feedback, check the new feedback, the actual numbers vs their expected numbers, and make adjustments. No need to be consistent just for the sake of being consistent. Be consistent on the stuff that works. If they haven't found out what works yet, then they'll have to experiment until they do.

I'd be more worried if they were rigid when it comes to change.

[Kuwagami]

Have you not done savage ? They basically require healers to dps as much as possible and tanks to use a lot of str acc due to the incredibly high dps checks. It's apparent they did want healers to be dpsing as much as they can.

I did do savage. However, Yoshida also stated that healer's dps wasn't taken into consideration during the balancing phase of encounters. I guess that was just a lie.

As an ongoing project, they have to adjust. They implement an idea based off feedback, check the new feedback, the actual numbers vs their expected numbers, and make adjustments. No need to be consistent just for the sake of being consistent. Be consistent on the stuff that works. If they haven't found out what works yet, then they'll have to experiment until they do.

I'd be more worried if they were rigid when it comes to change.

Coil was working. Just being cleared by the super extra hardcore too fast for devs' liking. They then ignored totally their mid-core raiding playerbase to cater to these 1% or so. See where it went with alexander savage.

[Maikeru]

No, it's purely meta. The devs have said healer DPS is not considered in encounter design. And more recently it sounds like they're not so happy with so much emphasis on even tank DPS.

Which makes you wonder. They don't consider it, but still... even with the healer DPSing, the tanks with STR gear doing x2 or x2.5 of the expected damage, people still hit enrage. So what are the expectations for the actual DPS? You don't have to be good, but amazing and burn ALL the resources you've got. By doing so, you make the room for mistakes smaller, because if 1 DPS dies, that's probably going to be enrage. Heck! Even having jobs overperforming (Tanks DPS, healers DPS), if a DPS dies, it's probably enrage anyway!

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They should just go back to the old formula. Yes, release a NM (Coil nerfed+echo level) and a HM (Original Coil, SCOB difficulty) so they increase the raiding population. Because, even if it's 1% of the content, it should cater a wider audience. Why does it matter if the top raiding group (Elysium/Lucrezia) down the fights in 1 or 2 weeks? Most of the playerbase it's so far away from that level of teamwork and gameplay that using them as a base for creating the next raid is super silly.

So, as it stands now, you've got:

Alexander: Gordias -> "Casual", faceroll.
Alexander: Gordias (Savage) -> A1S; A2S -> Midcore.
Alexander: Gordias (Savage) -> A3S; A4S -> Hardcore.

I don't see why the split is inside the very same raid. It blocks your gear progression. Lots of statics disbanding because of A3S, the raiding community is dying. I really don't care if they complain about the raids being "too easy". That vocal minority shouldn't have the same weight that a wider % of the player population that were left behind by the dev. team when they designed Alex Savage. "Oh, no, they killed our Bahamut in 2 weeks!!! OUR PRIDE IS HURT!"

On my end, I gotta be openly honest. I love Alex Savage's difficulty, I liked A3S and beyond. I've cleared SCOB Savage before HW (Again, this is not my main), I'm totally okay with that. What I can't stand is seeing the raiding community getting smaller. Statics disbanding everywhere (mine included, 4 times now). Have you tried finding a replacement for a spot in your static? You gotta start recruiting cross-server for that now. People are not interested on raiding anymore.

I don't want to be selfish, because I like this raid's difficulty, it doesn't mean I should overlook the damage it has created over the raiding community.

[HorseBoots]

If I recall correctly, about a month ago Playboy (I was reading it for the article I swear!) did an interview with members of Elysium after they accomplished their world first clear. Gouka, one of their co-leaders for the FC mentioned at the tail end.

"Even for the hardcore players most of us feel that Alexander Savage was tuned a little too high, maybe something that takes two to three weeks is fine, but when you’re spending an entire month essentially on the same fight it gets a little bit ridiculous."

I think just about everyone was displeased with the overall design for Savage. It's bad. I really don't understand what they were thinking while designing this current tier. It's like they tried to take it one step forward coming off of FCoB and they completely overshot the step and proceeded to trip and fall down the entire flight of stairs.

[FaizeD]

They just need to start introducing more raid tiers. Only two tiers is not enough. Especially if the lower tier is DF faceroll easy, and the higher one kills progression after you get a few accessories and maybe some gloves.

[Galactimus]

The only problem with Alex Savage is the enrage timer. There's really nothing else wrong with the raid itself. You increase the enrage in AS3 and AS4 by 30-40 seconds and you've got a perfectly fine raid.

- Tanks can stay in Tank stance
- You can bring a Paladin without worry
- You can even have a death or two

The problem right now is that the enrage timer is extremely unforgiving for statics trying to clear it for the first time; even if you do the mechanics perfectly and have the best ilvl available without AS3 drops.

[razzgrizz3]

It just seems to me that Yoshida is really confused about what he wants to do with the raids. He knows that AS is just stupidly overtuned but doesn't really want to lower the difficulty for the next tier because he doesn't want to piss of.. who exactly ? The 1% of players who cheesed their way through a fight too hard for them to handle as it was intended, due to an oversight in the game design ?[/I]

This so much. Even the world top raiding guilds were incapable of doing the fight in the intended way save for elysium. Even these same jp players, the "allmighty ones" that call out na players now, were not good enough to do it and had to resort to the exploit (GG much honour). And now yoshida wants to keep going with this? He has second thoughts about it?! Because hes affraid they will complain.
What an utter and complete joke...

[Tadacho]

You make a really good point when you mention catering for the 1% who want it super hard, but then who then cheese the fight anyway. Do they really want it as hard as they pretend they do? Hmm.

inb4 euphemism

I think SE's efforts in raiding should be towards adding more bosses, or a different raid structure, and maintaining the difficulty of T9's sort of standard, rather than all this worrying of is too hard or too easy.