Do the devs know what they really want to do with raids ?

[Tadacho]

The only problem with Alex Savage is the enrage timer. There's really nothing else wrong with the raid itself. You increase the enrage in AS3 and AS4 by 30-40 seconds and you've got a perfectly fine raid.

- Tanks can stay in Tank stance
- You can bring a Paladin without worry
- You can even have a death or two

The problem right now is that the enrage timer is extremely unforgiving for statics trying to clear it for the first time; even if you do the mechanics perfectly and have the best ilvl available without AS3 drops.

You're absolutely right. It's all very well having DPS checks within the fights, such as Hand of Pain or the last phase, but to make every fight an entire DPS race from start to finish is what really causes the issues relating to tanks, healers and the fight difficulty curves as a whole. It seems like a cheap way of tuning.

[Welsper59]

fun fact : healers aren't supposed to dps. They were given accuracy in 2.3 because it was required to meet SCoB savage dps checks at the taime, and carried on afterwards. Then they looked at healer dps and the fact that FCoB got wrecked because of that, and backpedaled like crazy on the fact that healers should dps.

All the while as they introduced content requiring healers to dps even more. yeah.

I honestly want to see them clear highest tier raid content without healer DPS at their intended gear level for a world first clear in such a situation. It doesn't have to be of relevant content neither, but even of old. Unfortunately, with how Coil was, excuses could be made on that end. Come 3.4 though, I'd say having them show us an un-nerfed A1S clear with intended gear level, no healers DPSing, and with at least one PLD tank and AST healer would be a good example to run with. Heck, they can even ignore the job request bit at the end there and simply go with intended ilvl and no healer damage. Maybe we'd learn a thing or two about how to handle raids in the future (like what their realistic expectations on gear is to make the clear).

[RiceisNice]

I also feel that they (yoshida and the developers) are lost on what they want to do with end game. Let's say they did intend on savage being ball-busting hard that only the most dedicated of people will finish it (similiar to SCoB savage) or was in response to thinking FCoB was too easy because those same dedicated people finished it within the week...but overall clear numbers are lower than they had expected?

Savage right now is supposed to be the raid to go into with a typical static, but unfortunately A3S is so highly tuned that its ended up breaking a good amount of statics and leaving for a lot of transfers (at least for my server). Normal mode is way too undertuned and placed on DF to be considered the usual content for a typical static.

[Velthice]

I have to agree. Who cares if your raid is beaten in a week or two by world first groups? That's like 1% of your playerbase. You do not tune your raid around the progress and capabilities of world first groups, that's stupid.

Grow some thicker skin Yoshida, it doesn't matter when your raid is beaten because as soon as it happens there's always going to be some dunce on the forums screaming that it's too easy even though he's never even set foot in it. They can be safely ignored like 99.9% of the time.

[Miscreant]

I did do savage. However, Yoshida also stated that healer's dps wasn't taken into consideration during the balancing phase of encounters. I guess that was just a lie.

Sorry you cleared T6 & 8 this September, undersized at level 60 really doesn't count, the mechanics and dps checks are non existent...

There was only 5 or so groups that cleared Savage on our server pre 3.0

This thread gives me a headache...

[Azazua_azura]

The devs are not confused, their trying to adjust content based on theur own testing/playing vs that of other players. They are listening to several regions of players who raid, who want different changes to raids. While trying to stick to their own wants and wishes as players and game creators.

[Jim_Berry]

I also feel that they (yoshida and the developers) are lost on what they want to do with end game. Let's say they did intend on savage being ball-busting hard that only the most dedicated of people will finish it (similiar to SCoB savage) or was in response to thinking FCoB was too easy because those same dedicated people finished it within the week...but overall clear numbers are lower than they had expected?

Savage right now is supposed to be the raid to go into with a typical static, but unfortunately A3S is so highly tuned that its ended up breaking a good amount of statics and leaving for a lot of transfers (at least for my server). Normal mode is way too undertuned and placed on DF to be considered the usual content for a typical static.

If people are transferring because content is too hard, then Yoshi did his job, right? People wanted difficult and they got it.

[Jim_Berry]

You're absolutely right. It's all very well having DPS checks within the fights, such as Hand of Pain or the last phase, but to make every fight an entire DPS race from start to finish is what really causes the issues relating to tanks, healers and the fight difficulty curves as a whole. It seems like a cheap way of tuning.

If I remember reading a while back, I thought I read that Yoshi wanted EVERYONE to push their job to its' limits (not in those words). Unfortunately, I don't raid in Savage because if I'm tanking as PLD, my mentality remain on staying in tank stance with VIT gear. But then again, I never beat A1S, so I don't feel the pain.

[Yoruichi4478]

Even if it's possible to clear for a larger number of groups than are clearing the content at present, that doesn't mean those groups will have *fun* pushing that hard to do so. That's very important to remember. The content is by no means impossible, but if statics and raiding FCs are falling apart because of the content (especially ones that have been around for a long time), it's probably worth looking at whether or not the content was designed for too small of a crowd.

I've seen countless statics I've known since the early days of ARR and FC's falling apart and outright quitting for other games or just quitting over Alex Savage and the lack of anything else. A3S is dubbed "The Static Killer" for a reason, at least on my server. Finding groups still willing to try a3s for example get harder and harder as the ones who could aren't so even if you find a group you can't be guaranteed they're skilled enough to clear or can stay focused enough to clear. Even ppl who have cleared say it's not fun and I know 2 groups that one, who even cleared a4s broke up after because nobody wanted to play anymore. Groups who could clear all the coil turns w/o echo should be able to clear Alex Savage. What I'm saying is, the content should've been tuned to the raiding crowd that got clears before echo was added, not fall apart because it was tuned too high.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

They should make the fights hard because the strategy to kill them is hard. Not put a DPS check on them. =p

Remove the DPS check on the fight and make the monsters hit harder.