Are you seriously THAT lost SE?

[MeeYow]

Savage is getting added this patch though. So at least for this round WAR got a buff. Edit: Party finder. My mistake, savage wont be affected, not that it matters, double war beat A4S before any PLDs did anyway.

3.2 we can hope will be different but regardless of how good it is for other classes, for PLD right now it's adding insult to injury.

Re the bit where it is an ability yes that's exactly why I said it, but until it's explicitly said or seen in game there is nothing wrong with treating it as an assumption.

Back on point though this isn't anywhere near as huge as some people are saying it is. It is barely a shave off of the dos whilst tanking gap about 40-50 off of the 300+ gap. PLD still doesn't even have any extra mitigation or actually functioning/non gimmick utility to show for it.

Edit: spelling

[RecklessLion]

I don\\'t want to be excluded because I don\\'t enjoy the other tank jobs in the game and pld brings nothing to the table. Is that too much to ask to be allowed to enjoy a job?

I can understand how you feel and not being mean or bias to the situation either. If they give them better AOE and more emnity the class it\\'s self would be fine. As far as the balancing goes it\\'s almost impossible to balance out 3 classes for one job. The whole point of 3 different classes is to have 3 different experiences while trying to achieve the same goal. I know content is bias but at the same time honestly tanking in ffxiv is not actually tanking since you depend on the healer and helping the healer with CD in either rotation or properly timed. PLD have the best mitigation giving them more dps or nerfing other dps for a balance creates more problems. Thats what you get when you have multiple classes for one job.

[RecklessLion]

[QUOTE=Freyyy;3410267]WARs mitigation was on par with PLD\\'s since 2.1. Players just took a pretty long time to realize it, but for example, I was personally MTing T13 as a WAR and my healers were saying that it was easier to manage than a PLD because I was able to IB every single flare breath while still also having it for every tank busters, where the PLD was just taking them naked and keeping all of its mitigation for Flattens and Akh Morns./QUOTE]

Hmm good point at the same time you're a skilled player. Not knocking other players but skills can definitely change a view about a class. Only reason why I say PLD have better mitigation their cd timers refresh faster then ours while us warriors have to manage our stacks to a known fight. If a PLD manage their CD with shield bash a lot of attacks could either be stuffed or mitigated. My only real defense argument for PLD lack of AOE use and emnity. No sense war and drk can spam their aoes in a offensive way while pld just meh.

[Freyyy]

Only reason why I say PLD have better mitigation their cd timers refresh faster then ours.

Huh.
Rampart : 90sec // Raw Intuition : 90sec
Sentinel : 180sec // Vengeance : 120sec
Bulwark : 180sec // Thrill of Battle : 120sec

Conva/Foresight/Awareness are all available to both, traits give Conva and Awareness an advantage on PLD, but WAR's Foresight is 90sec CD instead of 120 (but Foresight is so bad anyway it's not really a factor).

But most importantly, WARs have IB and managing stacks is not hard at all.

[Gangaloo]

Huh.
Rampart : 90sec // Raw Intuition : 90sec
Sentinel : 180sec // Vengeance : 120sec
Bulwark : 180sec // Thrill of Battle : 120sec

Conva/Foresight/Awareness are all available to both, traits give Conva and Awareness an advantage on PLD, but WAR's Foresight is 90sec CD instead of 120 (but Foresight is so bad anyway it's not really a factor).

But most importantly, WARs have IB and managing stacks is not hard at all.

Rampart != Raw Intuition. I don't know why people keep comparing the two. Raw Intuition is damage type specific while Rampart is not.

I agree though that WAR is definitely superior when looking at the CDs.

Paladin you have:

Rampart - 90s
Sentinel - 180s
Bulwark - 180s
Sheltron - 30s


Warrior:

Raw Intuition - 90s
Vengeance - 120s (this is the big one)
Thrill of Battle - 120s
Inner Beast - Every 5 Wrath Stacks
Equilibrium - 60s


PLD's main advantage is that Hallowed Ground can be used as a "I take no Damage" CD while waiting for other CDs to come back up. This lets them stack their CDs in certain situations.

Sheltron is huge for Paladin in physical fights. It's really strong in A3S but is generally over looked because Living Liquid just doesn't hit hard enough for healers to really care about tank damage all that much.

Equilibrium is the biggest benefit Warrior has atm. That thing can heal for a LOT on a Str WAR with Berserk rolling. It's insane how good it is. WAR rivals DRK as a MT for the current content tier thanks to Equilibrium.

The only way PLD will ever compete with WAR as a MT (note I said "compete", not better than) is if you have a really high damage physical fight where the tank busters are spread out long enough to allow the PLD to pool their CDs together. Sheltron will be really strong for the small bursts in between tank busters.

If SE goes that route though, everyone might as well shelve their DRK. Having a distinction between a "Magic" tank and a "Physical defensive" tank is just plain bad design.

I'm hoping they take a closer look at the DRK vs PLD distinction or simply tune fights in such a way that both can be viable (this is definitely possible). However, even if they manage to do that I don't think PLD will be a consideration since WAR can fill their role pretty effectively. You'd have to shove DRK out the door to give PLD a competing place in a raid.

Let's also not forget, despite the fact that WAR has really strong CDs and high DPS... no one wants to lose Storm's Path. That's probably the most overpowered ability in the WAR's tool kit that everyone tends to over look.

[Ashkendor]

Just want your favorite class to be op from what I'm reading honestly.

Reading this coming from a warrior makes me laugh pretty hard.

[Blitzace]

What i honestly don't get. Some people are telling us PLDs to wait for 3.2 Are you kidding me? wait another X months for that patch for stuff to be fixed?

Worst single target DPS Check.
Worst AoE DPS Check.

Skills mentioned in topic i wouldn't agree on. Situational as they may be. Cover has saved my PT plenty of times + I love that people actually go like, wtf... paladin just used cover.. AWESOME!
Tempered w. Awesome skill Shield bash love it. Swipe. Its not to bad...

Overall i have all the tank classes @60. Always played PLD as main will not change that, Kinda disappointed with the changes we are getting, But i'll jump the gun on that once it goes live.

Edit - Almost forgot.

Worst enmity, Check. Would love to see some higher multipliers on our DMG skills.

[RecklessLion]

Why does everyone say foresight is bad? I just combo it with Vengeance and inner beast I feel super tanky after that. They still have tempered will, access to foresite bleeh, hallow ground, and sheltron on top of heal buffs for parties. And Freyyy have you seen the line of warriors lately omg my eyes hurt when I play with some of these warriors. Live in deliverance, can't keep aggro, parties dieing......I'm sure they know nothing of managing stacks besides fell cleaving life. After playing monk for a while when I do tank I dang near treat my group like babies keeping them from all harm haha.

[SpookyGhost]

Foresight isn't bad, but unlike other defensive CDs you can't just use Foresight alone to survive tank busters. It's best used to smooth over auto attack damage while out of tank stance, so... that kinda says a lot about Foresight. It's better than it was before, though, because Foresight actually scales with gear and due to bosses still hitting as hard as 2.0 ones it gives more mitigation than it did in 2.0.

[Freyyy]

Rampart != Raw Intuition. I don't know why people keep comparing the two. Raw Intuition is damage type specific while Rampart is not.

I'm not comparing them at all. I'm just comparing the recast timers of their defensive abilities. I put Thrill of Battle against Bulwark too even tho Bulwark is only physical while Thrill is universal. It was not a comparison since the WAR defensive kit is working completely differently than the other tanks.