Savage Clear rate being lower the Devs expected, good or a bad thing?

[hagare]

Call me crazy but maybe people play the game for fun and challenging fights?

that's what they all say. Until they make the story accessible to everyone.
Then the crying and whining began.

[Zumi]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/126...29#post6560729

Lot of stuff about savage in this translated interview.

Do you have any plans to make adjustments to savage Alexander Gordias with patch 3.1? There should be a growing interest as players take advantage of the Diadem.

Yoshida: Because it is still the most difficult challenge, at least at the time of patch 3.1 we won't be making any adjustments. We'll be considering whether to make any changes starting from patch 3.15. Since you'll be able to obtain upgrade materials by completing Void Ark, we'll take a look at the number of people clearing savage at that time. If it's steadily increasing, we may not make any changes during the patch 3.1 series.

Yoshida: The number of people who have cleared savage is about what we expected. As esoterics gear became more available, we expected more players to break through the third section little by little, but it looks like many run into a bad stretch there. We're looking to see whether groups stop trying there or whether less groups are trying in general.

Yoshida: The next update for Alexander will be in patch 3.2. Right now, we're working on the savage version and trying to decide whether to make it satisfying for the top players or whether to adjust it for a wider range of people. Given the cost of development, I'd lean towards a lower difficulty savage, but then some players may come back and say it isn't difficult enough...

Looks like the 3.2 savage alex may be easier.

[Jynx]

Glad to know that if Yoshida had a bigger dev team he would waste the extra resources on rehashing content a third time instead of twice.

[WingPrince]

Yoshida: The next update for Alexander will be in patch 3.2. Right now, we're working on the savage version and trying to decide whether to make it satisfying for the top players or whether to adjust it for a wider range of people. Given the cost of development, I'd lean towards a lower difficulty savage, but then some players may come back and say it isn't difficult enough...

ｉ　ｔｈｉｎｋ　Ｙｏｓｈｉｄａ　ｄｉｄｎ’ｔ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｗｈｅｎ　ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ　ｑｕｉｔ　ａｎｄ　ｇｅｔ　ｉｎｔｏ　ｏｔｈｅｒ　ｇａｍｅｓ，　ｎｏ　ｍｏｒｅ　ｃｈａｎｃｅ　ｔｏ　ｍａｋｅ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｂａｃｋ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｈｏｗ　ｄｉｄ　ｙｏｕ　ｃｈａｎｇｅ　ｏｌｄ　ｔｈｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｅａｓy....it doesn't matter anymore to them...
the mmo rpg should be keep who stiil playing and get new players....not make too hard thing to let players want to quit and after this make it ez want them back.........

most of my friend already want to quit, coz we all have savage 1+2F gears and full il200 gears, still hard to pass 3F even 4F, and most of CF groups only have 30% or less to pass 3F .........

MR YOSHIDA.....you should change other mind to think other 60% players how they live in FFXIV ,not always care abt only 10% top players how to play end-game........


but if SE only want 10% top players play FFXIV, u can keep the savage setting in future ...........

[AltanRapsied]

There's less clear because less people interested of doing it because no point of doing it if it's just for gear.

MR YOSHIDA.....you should change other mind to think other 60% players how they live in FFXIV ,not always care abt only 10% top players how to play end-game........

It's not like they added echo and nerfed bahamut for newbies. It's not like they made an alexander normal mode entirely for newbies so that they won't complain they can't go through the hard mode (but they actually did damn this community is stupid.)
It's not like they always give the possibility to newbies to get gear faster and faster, etc.
Actually, excepted giving the 10% top players (to my mind there's more like 40%) the hardmode of Alexander, what did they do? Well, nothing, because nothing else is hard, it's always a difficulty low enough so that the most people can do it. 24 raids, dungeons, even EX primal, those are just some content to entertain people because they feel like they have something to do, but real challenge? Just let me laught. Only Alexander savage is a challenge (and T12 T13 if you do them unsynced).

[silentwindfr]

May I ask why -one- raid/dungeon in this game has to cater specifically to the casual market? Why shouldn't there be content for the best of the best? The 1% excuse is not viable. With that logic, no MMO's should have really hard end game raids.

i want to answer this in particular because i feel it show perfectly one of the major trouble of the mmorpg modern.
what is the endgame? do it's raid? or it's the activity people will do when they do have reach the end game.
End Game means simple the ultimate goal you will try to reach as player, and we don't talk only of the casual, midcore or hardcore gamer, but the whole playerbase.

MMORPG have never find a way to differenciate Endgame with raiding. that it major flaws (it can be pvp raiding or pve raiding), look at our situation, the end game, the most important point of why player stay ingame is cartering for a very very small part of the playerbase.

a tons of time, energy and money is invested into the developpement of content that will be seen only by a small part of the playerbase.... tell me why people must stay in the game if they don't do raiding?
for level up all jobs? for get the last glamour ? do it's really a decent endgame feature?

Endgame must'nt be only raiding... until they understand this we will see this trouble get out of the hand more and more. why do they care soo much about hardcore? because they are most vocal part of the community, by doing video, doing guide and such. but do they are reflecting the playerbase? no... they are not different than a waste of energy and money for a part of the advertissement. i don't say that raiding must'nt be in the game, i say it must'nt be the only ENDGAME. by create different type of Endgame, they will make the game healthier, some people will have trouble to gather 7 other people, simply because they have bad timing or simply because is not them thing...

why can't we see endgame content for group? i means give a challenge to group for give more utility to the gears you will fight to earn in raid. or simply get more better stuff for face raid. actually dungeon are... bad, no, i means they are boring and tedious. add a new type of group content that can be on par with raid as endgame is what they must strive to do... sadly with them team is impossible mission. they need more people, they need more cash.... or they need to stop to try to create a content that will be seen only by 2-3% of the playerbase and invest this time and money on developping a new endgame content that will be more open....

how? procedural generation... creation of randomized dungeon with hard challenge like we had in the V1 like, find the chest hidden in the place before it's too late... or beat all the monster of the place... or escort someone out of this place... they need to create a new type of content that will be hard and ask teamplay for call more casual, with this content they can do smaller test on what can be good to be added to the raid later, why not, a raid mode of this sort of content.

we are all agreeing that it's boring to redo over and over and over the same content. maybe time to work on some random content, what it's is asked for a long time.


sadly, SE HQ prefer invest tons of cash into Final Fantasy 15 how many million was taken from the benefit earn from FF14 and given to that game... and i think it will not even be a succes...

[Nestama]

Only Alexander savage is a challenge (and T12 T13 if you do them unsynced).

The "difficulty" gap between Alexander Savage and T12-T13 is pretty massive, though.

[rappa]

Nerf endgame content is not a good idea.

I met players who took a holiday for a week during alex savage. they were waiting to clear a1s-a4s during that week like they did in SCOB and FFCOB. Obviously they couldn't due dpscheck/gearcheck and they can't raid more than a few days or neither.

We have two communities, NA/EU and JP.
JP ffxiv community is healthy in raid terms. NA/EU is not.

Is our problem? In fact yes, we have the thought "who cares about time, we clear the content, we got the reward and i leave the dungeon". You could read everytime in FO or reddit about low dps, bad PF experiences. Players are not interested to improve or they haven't the opportunity to improve. I know players killed Bismark extreme, Ravana ext and alex normal doing low dps because their party was carrying him or they didn't know how is going in dps.

Now, SE released an endgame content where players do not need become good, they need be awesome. The reality slaped them in the face. I remember first 2 weeks about players unable to kill Faust in savage mode. Probably they killed others contents because some members did more damage to cover the lack of others one. Once you need 8 players at 100%, they failed and go frustrated.

We had others experience as Pharos Sirius and Steps of faith nerfed. We do not need remove "hardcore" content, we need players learn how to become good, with tools, guides ingame, numbers. And the community have to step up. Do you see a player spamming an ability in a dungeon? Give him advices, if he doesn't wanna be helped kick him. He must learn laziness is not a accepted behaviour.

As long as we read -"No matters the time to clear the content if we did"- we will fail as players. We need to be more competitives, more avid to new encounters and challenges. It's like a wheel, if you create "easy content" your players will be bored and doing the minimun to clear it. If you create challenges, players will have to improve to clear the content, some of them will give up and others will learn and become better players.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Nerf endgame content is not a good idea.

I met players who took a holiday for a week during alex savage. they were waiting to clear a1s-a4s during that week like they did in SCOB and FFCOB. Obviously they couldn't due dpscheck/gearcheck and they can't raid more than a few days or neither.

We have two communities, NA/EU and JP.
JP ffxiv community is healthy in raid terms. NA/EU is not.

Is our problem? In fact yes, we have the thought "who cares about time, we clear the content, we got the reward and i leave the dungeon". You could read everytime in FO or reddit about low dps, bad PF experiences. Players are not interested to improve or they haven't the opportunity to improve. I know players killed Bismark extreme, Ravana ext and alex normal doing low dps because their party was carrying him or they didn't know how is going in dps.

Now, SE released an endgame content where players do not need become good, they need be awesome. The reality slaped them in the face. I remember first 2 weeks about players unable to kill Faust in savage mode. Probably they killed others contents because some members did more damage to cover the lack of others one. Once you need 8 players at 100%, they failed and go frustrated.

We had others experience as Pharos Sirius and Steps of faith nerfed. We do not need remove "hardcore" content, we need players learn how to become good, with tools, guides ingame, numbers. And the community have to step up. Do you see a player spamming an ability in a dungeon? Give him advices, if he doesn't wanna be helped kick him. He must learn laziness is not a accepted behaviour.

As long as we read -"No matters the time to clear the content if we did"- we will fail as players. We need to be more competitives, more avid to new encounters and challenges. It's like a wheel, if you create "easy content" your players will be bored and doing the minimun to clear it. If you create challenges, players will have to improve to clear the content, some of them will give up and others will learn and become better players.

What is the point of doing it when the reward is trash and going to be replaced in 3 months? Alexander Savage in 3.1 is already replaced gear wise. Its why nobody bought the jaguar, they knew the N64 and Playstation were on their way soon.

Gear in this game is bland, boring and its nothing special. So there really is no incentive to do anything hard, plus the expansion released with only 2 dungeons... eh... I mean, they are (or should be getting) a lot more money then what EQ2 ever made, and they produced 9-12 dungeons (all harder then the dungeons in FFXIV) and 3-4 raids per expansion? As well as 2-3 world zones and 300-400 quests? There team wasn't (and still isn't) much bigger either. You could say: Go play that then! However its so outdated now. Lol!

[silentwindfr]

the trouble Rappa, it's we don't have other content for make us improve it's raid or raid, group content or world content are either too easy or simply faceroll.
it's nice to say that people need to be competitive, but the insentive reason to get gears is not good anymore a lot of people simply don't see the point to spend countless hour for get a gears that at the end help them only for get this said gears.

yes japanese community is healthier, yes NA/EU community is bad. but neglicted the trouble in the game design will not solve something, don't forget that japanese tend to appreciate game even without a lot of content everything in them life is a competition.... however in the rest of the world we don't only have this competition in mind... some want to have fun and challenge they can face without spend countless hours at farm the gears that will be used for farm this gears....

Farming is... not a competition is a tedious work.... is never fun. admit it, most of the fun of endgame content is the few first down of boss after this is become boring and uninteresting.

they need a challenge with a high replayability that will be adapted for force people to get better, by example a time attack mode of a randomized dungeon, that will ask people to strive for do it in short time if they want good reward. more important this gears will be usefull since it will allows them to reach this goal, but.... it must be a group content, before make them be good in raid, make them enjoy group. the trouble is all about the lack of true hard content in group.