JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[rappa]

Alexander savage is the actual challenge and i don't remember the exactly percent but i read about 5% community cleared savage. Disheartening.


SE promoted the lack of interest on Raid scene. back to 2.2, Second Coil is released, best gear is 110 and soldiery items are 100. Three months after SCOB, they inserted Hunts and players who didn't put a step in SCOB got better gear than raiders, with bad lucks or they had to share upgrade items between party members, with zero effort. Just join a party, push 3 buttons and win. SE repeated the same formula in 2.5, the community learned and they though -"i gonna waste my time doing FCOB? Nah i just wait three months, wait for hunts and echo and try to faceroll the raid".

With Savage, SE tried to get a better raid scene, but the most part of the community were not prepared. Partys were unable to kill faust before enrage, unable to kill Oppresor and 0.5 before enrage and still a3S is the most hard fight, IMHO a3s > a4s with cheese.

I like Wildstar system to complete dungeons:
In time and objectives? Gold. => More Tomes, high % Random item / minion drop or materia
Objectives but out of time? Silver. => More tomes low % Random item / minion drop or materia
Just complete the dungeon? Bronze. => Same reward

PS: 1000 words limit are killing me :/

[Madjames]

Rappa the issue is someone such as myself came from a game that offered so much more end game content per patch then SE does. That reason, and that reason only is why I will not step foot into savage. Until I get my actual raids back with 10-15 bosses per raid + trash with the removal of the raid timer, I will continue to sit out on smacking my head against a brick wall and continue to get Ilevel 200 gear as opposed to Ilevel 210.

[Animarelic]

As for a Solution to help with raiding, I created the Raid Experience Party Finder (REP). Basically it is a Google Doc spreadsheet where players on the server can list their extensive raid experience, Example A1S (2nd Jump). There you can find other players of the same raid experience and it has a mentor's column for players who opt to train newer raiders. It also serves as a talent pool for those looking to create a static to draw from versus scouring various Forums. I hope that this idea takes hold. So far it's gotten a decent number of people signed up. If it gets bigger I might end up making a website for it.

Instead of creating a black list I figure why not create the opposite. This way players can get help and it creates a better network for raiders.

[rappa]

Rappa the issue is someone such as myself came from a game that offered so much more end game content per patch then SE does. That reason, and that reason only is why I will not step foot into savage. Until I get my actual raids back with 10-15 bosses per raid + trash with the removal of the raid timer, I will continue to sit out on smacking my head against a brick wall and continue to get Ilevel 200 gear as opposed to Ilevel 210.

Probably FFXIV is not your Hardcore Raid game.

You comment about 10-15 bosses and trash. Those patchs take 6-9 months to be completed in a normal pace or having 2-3 types of difficult. Some of that bosses are like trash, as far you enter the boss encounter, they die and give loot. Zero effort. You have 10 bosses and 3 are hard, the rest of them are tank and spank or "piñatas".

MMO community changed from our starts. We haven't the time to play 4 hours to clear a big hall with trash and spend one hour killing pawns. "Our time is gold".

FFXIV community is big. Hardcore or mid-hardcore not. Our FC will be unable to complete a full 24 man raiding 4 hours 5 days each week.

[Teryaani]

I agree with the first part of his premise the (paraphrasing) 'You can't get good if you don't have a chance to learn'.

As for the second complaint, the - 'If it's not endgame content it sucks' (paraphrasing his complaint about Lords of Vermillion and casuals asking for fluff content)? He can get stuffed. MMOs can't survive on one type of content alone.

[Azazua_azura]

@ animarelic

first off i started/restarted 75 characters in ff11, i did each city rank mission roughly 20 times over. Unless you wanted to do dynamis YOU DID NOT HAVE TO DO THEM. Not everyong in ff11 did endgame infact very few did BECAUSE OF THE INSTENCE LOCK AND 1 TIME SPAWN mobs. dynamis was under a 1mil gil item which lowered to 500K item to a 1 time 500K buy. the instence was for 1 alliance at a time. and had 3 parts then a 4th after you beat the first 3. in the first 5 years of playing I BARELY saw ppl do dynamis. Sky had mobs that only spawn after long time frames to earn drops to kill the bosses to earn drops to kill kirin.

[Toguro]

Basically the problem with the NA community in general is that it forged into something that split up the community into something like factions. many different kinds too. Examples: Casuals, Bads/Baddies, Elitists, No-Lifers, etc. With these titles, that's where the discrimination or an almost sort of racism within the community itself.

People cannot clear end-game because people want experienced players to group up with because they want to win(Understandable. Who doesn't?). People don't want to tell people how or teach them because it can take time. People want others to watch videos so they can know the fight and may be irritated or upset if you do not watch the video. Alot of players probably feel irritated that they are almost required to watch them.

I personally hate watching videos and never watched another after I watched a T5 video and learned nothing. It's like studying for a test. And studying doesn't work for me. I just go in. I ask for a run-down inside. I watch the mechanics happen and I grasp it the first time. Now I know everyone isn't like me but, I can only clear stuff like that because they're in DF.

When PFs have requirements for.. A3S that say: "Must be experienced past add phase", They cut out ALOT of people. How can you, as a new guy, get experienced to past the add phase if you can't get into a group that'll let you in because you don't have experience?

And since statics can be very demanding, most people don't have the time or are able to handle them. Lots of statics in PF are made up of random people who you don't know, then you go in and get rekt...disbanded static. (This is based off of static horror stories I've read) Statics don't get their reps by themselves now. Alot of people I know have talked about how they don't have time for statics or they don't want to deal with the... hardcority of a static. That idea doesn't come from no where.

If the general content-doing PF community wasn't so demanding, people would probably get more content done. People already say that EXs shouldn't be put in DF at day 1 because most people probably won't beat it anyway. I find that dumb because there will always be PUGs that somehow beat things. And I bet the majority of the player base doesn't use PF.

[Jynx]

It comes down to the core design of the game I feel. The Japanese community seems to have overcome this issue though.

The game has very little incentive to help build a community of players willing to cooperate.

[Whiteroom]

Basically the problem with the NA community in general is that it forged into something that split up the community into something like factions. many different kinds too. Examples:Casuals, Bads/Baddies, Elitists, No-Lifers, etc. With these titles, that's where the discrimination or an almost sort of racism within the community itself.

People cannot clear end-game because people want experienced players to group up with because they want to win(Understandable. Who doesn't?). People don't want to tell people how or teach them because it can take time. People want others to watch videos so they can know the fight and may be irritated or upset if you do not watch the video. Alot of players probably feel irritated that they are almost required to watch them.

I personally hate watching videos and never watched another after I watched a T5 video and learned nothing. It's like studying for a test. And studying doesn't work for me. I just go in. I ask for a run-down inside. I watch the mechanics happen and I grasp it the first time. Now I know everyone isn't like me but, I can only clear stuff like that because they're in DF.

When PFs have requirements for.. A3S that say: "Must be experienced past add phase", They cut out ALOT of people. How can you, as a new guy, get experienced to past the add phase if you can't get into a group that'll let you in because you don't have experience?

And since statics can be very demanding, most people don't have the time or are able to handle them. Lots of statics in PF are made up of random people who you don't know, then you go in and get rekt...disbanded static. (This is based off of static horror stories I've read) Statics don't get their reps by themselves now. Alot of people I know have talked about how they don't have time for statics or they don't want to deal with the... hardcority of a static. That idea doesn't come from no where.

If the general content-doing PF community wasn't so demanding, people would probably get more content done. People already say that EXs shouldn't be put in DF at day 1 because most people probably won't beat it anyway. I find that dumb because there will always be PUGs that somehow beat things. And I bet the majority of the player base doesn't use PF.

And your whole post highlights one of the big problems by leaving it out.

Among all those PF examples, you never mentioned starting your own learning PF. There can be a learning PF there at any time of the day, because you can start one. This is a big problem, everyone wants the super experienced groups, even if they have no experience themselves.

How can you critisize groups for asking for up to a certian phase? Thats so selfish. They already put in all the time to learn the fight to that phase, and want to progress. Why should they go back to the stuff they were working on last week, to train you, when they don't even have a clear? To answer your question regarding "how your supposed to get past the add phase?" Look no further than above, you start your own group, and progress, just like they did.

Your comment about people expecting others to come prepared, via videos and the like is well... I mean people who play on the Japan servers say pretty much everyone comes prepared and with their homewok done of their own accord. And here you would bash that as well. These are the differences I see, no personal ownership here, the want for people to do your work for you.

[AriaEnia]

And also, the discrimination towards a class, the PLD. I was trying to find a group to clear Bismarck EX in PF, I found one, it's only need 1 more, a tank slot. Then I join (as a PLD).
Then the party leader said, "No PLD, PLD does shit dps" and I got kicked just like that.
in expert DF, "LOL a PLD, prepare for a long run, bla bla"
JP server did their first A4S clear with a PLD if I remember, they don't discriminate like these people here in NA which I usually see.