Just got wheeling thrust.... Can someone explain the point of it to me?

[RiceisNice]

But if we're talking objectively, Wheeling Thrust still isn't the shining example of good game design and implementation. And it's obvious.

Objectively they could have done it better (which can be said for other jobs too, not just DRG), but the fact remains that WT still serves it's purpose in adding another check to differentiate a mediocre DRG from a good one.

I won't speak for everyone..

Then stop doing so, especially when some posts are directed to general people and not you specifically. Espesically when people want to add more things to the current state of DRG and not understand why they don't need to be better than the way they are now.

... still intelligent people who'd agree that if you're going to give difficulty for something, there should be a benefit for the difficulty. Simple logic. Not to mention, making WT a simple 50/50 doesn't 'balance' the dps increase.

Again doesn't apply to just DRG. BRD and MCH get WM/GB that acts as a damage loss in a normal circumstance until they get more abilties added to it. The new abilties locked behind WM/GB are in the same sense as GS being locked behind WT since it all comes together under a common mechanic (specifically BotD).

The worst part is that we had 5 skills to be given in HW, and one of those spots got wasted by a duplicate. Again, you can have the difficulty, the 50/50, and balance without putting WT at 58 when it could have potentially been other things.

DRG is not unique in this case so I don't get why it's such a big problem for them, especially when there are also skills that are flat out wasted because it serves no practical use and actively detriments some of the jobs for trying to use it. Yes it can be a better thing, but at this point and with the current state of DRG, it really feels like this is a problem only because you don't have an extra skill that possibly isn't needed to begin with. when every other job has 5 skills (or effectively 4)

but look at what it got and how well it all syncs up with their job with NO duplicate skills.

If you really want to bring up other jobs, some have it far worse than DRG where their playstyle has not changed at all, being broken at some points and hell, two different jobs that have a lvl 52 skill that is functionally the same in every aspect. At this point I'm really tempted to say "get over it" if duplicated skills is a problem and bring up other jobs in comparison,

They have very obvious examples of things that are hilariously strong with very little drawback. Where's the 'general balance and difficulty floor' there? It does nothing but increase the difficulty a healer has healing them, not their actual ability to play the job.

Difficulty is subjective, as well as what people find to be fun. You have people who like DRG the way it plays now with WT/FnC's interaction with BotD. I actually prefer MCH even though argubily a good wildfire is harder to pull off than a buffed-barrage on BRD. Heck you have people that are actively preferring BLM over SMN despite enochian busting their stones. This honestly doesn't have much relevance to bring up in comparison, but considering that it;s a new expansion, you sorta need to add something new to evolve the jobs from their 2.0 counterpart. Difficulty is to the player's expectations and preference.

You're bringing up so many perspectives I'm not even sure what you want right now. Do you want an extra skill on DRG? Do you want it to be "easier" on the same level of SMN/WAR because the idea of skill flooring is poorly executed?

Like I said, you can't perceive everything you need until you have it. Some things are more obvious than others. Like the fact that MNK could definitely use more TP sustain. That was something that was obvious that they needed. DRG didn't really have that.

Then please stop perceiving WT by itself, but rather with everything at level 60.

Don't need". So really, that's not a strong point to make, that we "Don't need anything". We don't know that .

You don't need anything in the current state of the game. You don't especially need more dps, mobility, survivability or utility compared to other melees because quite frankly DRG has it pretty well in in all of those areas compared to NIN and MNK.

And again, WT is not a "Gate" to anything like you keep insinuating. WT doesn't open up further possibilities or higher DPS. WM/GB are gates BECAUSE they become DPS increases once you get more skills.

WT opens up GS, unless you're going to tell me that you learn GS without ever learning WT. WM/GB are gates because the skills are locked behind learning and using said ability.

[Nominous]

stuffs

Well, for one, you're replying to a post that I'm not really quoting you on. That was a different argument entirely, for a different purpose, so of course there's different things being discussed. Different points to prove, or speak on. It's not a matter of wanting different things, just different facets of the same issue.


Two, I continue to reiterate that I don't speak for everyone because of silly accusations like you're making. It's too easy for someone to think that I am, even if I clearly say "In my opinion" or explicitly stating I'm not. I use 'we' as a way to define DRG, because I am one, not because of any plans to speak for others. And further on that point, just because I (I'm not sure if you were trying to allude to me there) feel as if one skill could have been dealt with differently doesn't mean all of a sudden I think DRG is awful, or not where they need to be.

You continue to make strange conclusions based on what I'm saying. I never say, or allude to the idea that DRG is a crap job. I never insinuate that we need something more than we've got. I'm saying it would have been nice to have 5 all new abilities, as opposed to 4, with one that only has the actual purpose of giving us challenge. I'm not sure how that translates into, "We need more!"

It's like if someone brings you Pokemon Blue for your birthday, and someone else brings you Pokemon Red. It's not like you can't see that Red has some difference, however slight. It's not even about the strength of the two games collectively, or the franchise at all. It's as simple as just wanting to have two separate games or gifts for your birthday. Same concept I'm trying to explain with WT.