Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Bled]

I have and will continue to argue on behalf that immersion is an objective term that has been vastly explained to this point both using psychology, behavioral science, and overall game content. However i do agree and have never openly denied that the level in which you are immersed is subjective and based on the viewer. Much like love, and psychoses these too are objective, they however are also subjective when applied to the level in which you experience each. Stating that immersion, love, and psychoses are a "state of mind" is redundant and self evident, not supporting the argument that immersion, love, and psychoses are in themselves subjective.

When discussing definitions everyone turns to Webster's dictionary or even dictionary.com however though these are highly credible and substantiated in the academic world, i argue against the absolute. The absolute of anything is a representation of its perfect form in which none of us have and will ever see. The attempt to discern between this perfect form and the definition we each view differently in our society has been a highly popular occurrence since great philosophers such as Socrates, Plato , Aristotle, and much more. I do not disagree with the formation of definitions but i will argue that in the realm of perfection there is no room for subjectivity there is only the objective and all forums are in perfect balance with each other. Since all of us suffer from emotions, beliefs, values, cultures, nations, and so on we all suffer from a flawed perspective of these forms. So any objectivity we can come near to achieving is just intelligible radiance from the actual meaning.

So for the sake of this argument i persuade that we all drop this objectivity and subjectivity crap and allow each and everyone of us to define our own versions of Immersion as long as they are intelligible, and discuss it freely without repressive constraints. For in the end we all truly know nothing, and we should only attempt to foster a healthy game. Balance is the most important achievement to attain in Final Fantasy 14.

I will admit i hate teleportation in MMO's (as I'm sure i have made evident in past posts) i do believe it breaks my immersion, however i will not argue that it does not have a place in the world of FF14 anymore. however with a teleportation mechanic a balance must be made in order to create a healthy gaming environment.

I attempted to step away from my biased hatred towards instant travel mechanics and i reflected on popular games that utilized this mechanic and yet were successful. I came to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with instant travel in and of its self, as long as it dose not not make other content obsolete. Drawing from my experiences with Final Fantasy 11 (no nostalgia), i looked at what made Abysea a deal beaker for me and many of my other IRL friends and LS friends. Abysea created an unbalance in the game, creating all past content obsolete so aside from being a lore/immersion junkie there was no reason to go outside of Abysea, thus creating an empty world for the rest of us.

Teleportation should not (if implemented right) take away from anything, there should still be a reason to experience all other content. Immersion of the game in its most basic form stems from your ability to not stop playing the game due to being awestruck or drawn in. So as long as teleportation does not take away from other content i now feel that immersion will not be broken.

This is my present post and my reconciliation.

[Konachibi]

I will pretend that the word immersion means 'enjoying'

Dunno why people don't focus on enjoyment factor like back in the day. If people became enthralled with FF7 it simply meant they were enjoying it, same with all other games. The second the word 'immersion' started flying around all hell broke loose and suddenly the enjoyable games which are still as enjoyable as ever aren't enjoyable because some nobody reviewer from a dumb game website decided to throw the word 'immersion' into the mix as a buzz-word.

I think if we just put the word 'immersion' behind us and just try to enjoy the game, it'll be a lot more fun, and suddenly all these things that mattered because of immersion won't matter anymore, because you're enjoying yourself.

Only problem is, in the process of talking about immersion, have made 'subjective' into a new buzzword.

[Konachibi]

/quote text wall

Your post is a good and healthy one, and for me it was enjoyable to read.

I won't be argueing against it all, I agree with it whole-heartedly. It meets that niche middle-ground where everyone can accept what you said and go with it.

Awesome job Bled, the way you explained all that was almost artistic in it's execution.

[Bled]

I will pretend that the word immersion means 'enjoying'

Dunno why people don't focus on enjoyment factor like back in the day. If people became enthralled with FF7 it simply meant they were enjoying it, same with all other games. The second the word 'immersion' started flying around all hell broke loose and suddenly the enjoyable games which are still as enjoyable as ever aren't enjoyable because some nobody reviewer from a dumb game website decided to throw the word 'immersion' into the mix as a buzz-word.

I think if we just put the word 'immersion' behind us and just try to enjoy the game, it'll be a lot more fun, and suddenly all these things that mattered because of immersion won't matter anymore, because you're enjoying yourself.

Only problem is, in the process of talking about immersion, have made 'subjective' into a new buzzword.

Because we all have beliefs, values, ideas, nations, cultures, backgrounds, we all to an extent suffer from subjectivity. Thus i argue do we really know what objectivity is? What was it 4 years ago we thought that antimatter was impossible and all objective evidence pointed to something else, yet here antimatter is now. We as cognitive beings in this reality we perceive, are always in flux which makes objectivity as we see it subjective.

[Bled]

Your post is a good and healthy one, and for me it was enjoyable to read.

I won't be argueing against it all, I agree with it whole-heartedly. It meets that niche middle-ground where everyone can accept what you said and go with it.

Awesome job Bled, the way you explained all that was almost artistic in it's execution.

After that long drawn out argument and trying to step back from my old point of view, i went and read all the posts in your Definition of Immersion thread. After reading it all i started to see all the rehashed arguments and some of the miss communications which created more arguments, which then became arguments for the sake of arguments and i realized how caught up i was earlier.

But thanks for the thread it at least help me to gain some perspective.

[Konachibi]

After that long drawn out argument and trying to step back from my old point of view, i went and read all the posts in your Definition of Immersion thread. After reading it all i started to see all the rehashed arguments and some of the miss communications which created more arguments, which then became arguments for the sake of arguments and i realized how caught up i was earlier.

But thanks for the thread it at least help me to gain some perspective.

I'm glad it helped ^.^

The original post in it and some of the things said afterwards do make the whole thing make more sense, but I guess a lot of the misunderstandings and arguements that stemmed from it is mostly due to miscommunication. I'm not brilliant at wording things correctly, that much is obvious to anyone who reads most of the posts I put in the forums, and I get the same problem irl, as such I often get misunderstood.

I guess if we tried to break down the entire thing to the most simple explaination possible, it would be:

"Nobodies perfect."

That's how I interpreted it anyways. :3

[Konachibi]

Because we all have beliefs, values, ideas, nations, cultures, backgrounds, we all to an extent suffer from subjectivity. Thus i argue do we really know what objectivity is? What was it 4 years ago we thought that antimatter was impossible and all objective evidence pointed to something else, yet here antimatter is now. We as cognitive beings in this reality we perceive, are always in flux which makes objectivity as we see it subjective.

Wouldn't objectivity be something like:

"I am sitting on a chair, this is fact, it cannot be interpreted in any other way"?

[Bled]

Wouldn't objectivity be something like:

"I am sitting on a chair, this is fact, it cannot be interpreted in any other way"?

well id have a plethora of quotes i could give you if i had my books with me, but the only one that comes to mind is "there are no facts, only interpretations." (Friedrich Nietzsche). You interpret your action as sitting but are you really sitting? kinda stems from the “why is there something instead of nothing? mentality. The same can be said for the chair where in Plato's Republic Socrates argues that the chair that we perceive and is crafted, is only a glimpse of what a chair really is. Everything in reality that we know is just a shadow of what it really is, as depicted in the Allegory of the Cave which is intended to fit with the sun and line (517b, Platos Republic).

Of course this is all deeply routed in philosophy and is viewed as highly skeptical today, but then again so are the terms subjective and objective which stem from philosophy and are still widely debated.

[Jynx]

I will pretend that the word immersion means 'enjoying'

To be immersed "As far as my common grasp of language runs" is to feel like "Part of the world"

While I'm sure you have said it before things like not eating, sleeping, and other mental/bodily needs are not met within the constraints of the game "Break immersion" they do to a point. But when you play a game you are willing to "Look past" a few things and the big differentiating factor is.

Where do we draw the line with our suspension of disbelief?

suspension of disbelief: Is mainly being able to look at a situation that is not realistic (IE: game physics being far from real world physics) When we accept that a punch can litteraly knock a orc a good 5 feet from where he was standing we are doing just that.

Some people can't get past the fact that you can instantly step on a airship and hop out the other end with little less than a cutscene, this is and still will remain where I "drew the line in the sand" I can get around Anima and it's limited quantities because it not only makes sense within the confines of the world, it has restrictions and consequences that are anchored within the realm of reason.

It's just my opinion and I'm willing to bend, but I wont deny that my "Immersion" doesn't hold up when I step on the airship with my pal and he is shouting at me that he is allready in gridania because he pressed the wrong travel button, instantly skyrocketing him from Limsa Lominsa to the forest days away. I'm not trying to live in the world, I just want the world to feel like a world and not a series of areas that you just dissapear and reapear in.

I've givin up on arguing the point because it's plain as day as what my vision for the system is. Unfortunatly for me it's not what everyone else wants and I need to be able to be flexible because not everything is going to go my way all the time. Hopefully a few things I yearn for will be added that other people might not like so I can sit on my high ground and laugh at the peons trying to clamor for change that wont happen.

Something like...only gaining your maps by walking places! Or...not being able to pigyback to aetherite crystals you have no clue where they are actually located because you haven't even stepped foot in the region let alone near the crystal. Content on airships that the "Quick ride" people miss out on, hell make it more likely to see this content if you ride the long ship more often!

There are lots of ways the developers can do this content and still give me a bone in the end, I just hope they deem some things that I yearn for as good ideas.

[Konachibi]

I'm sure once S.E has FFXIV up and running at full speed they'll start adding little tweaks here and there to make things a bit more enjoyable overall and attempt to cater things to a wider audience.