About Shuffle,Spread,Royal Road and Draw.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Haven't read through all the posts but definitely agree on the Shuffle issues. I mean it's on fricken cooldown, to pull Spear or something, Shuffle and get the exact same card, feels the same as basically popping Collective Unconscious when the party isn't near by, and then moving to remove the effect. It's just a waste of a cooldown.

I'll just leave this here:

The whole purpose of the system is the RNG and the lore of the role has everything to do with it.

Additionally:
Confirmation bias
Luck of the draw

[RazeLandale]

Shuffle cooldown is fine as long as you don't use it when royal road is down. Royal road cards you don't want first and shuffle will always be up to protect your next buffed draw. Now whether it just makes you draw the same card again is another issue entirely, but the cd itself isn't a problem.

I like the idea of the draw cd starting when you draw a card instead of playing it. Nice quality of life type of change that doesn't punish you for taking a moment to think or doing something more important like saving someones butt first. Kinda a buff, but still two cards a minute, it just kinda even things out a bit.

On rng, it's fine. Cards being situational or generally poor isn't. Drawing spear wouldn't be a problem if spear were a good card. Spire and ewer need some secondary effect so they aren't useless in a 60 second fight.

[VitalSuit]

Not sure why people think Shuffle's CD should be reduced... again. Having it up for every other draw is fine but they really need to limit how often you redraw the same card. I know you put it back into the deck but the reason why i shuffled was to get something else.

[Havenchild]

I think for Spread, the skill should start its CD when its first used and not when the card is played. This would help mostly with the clunky oddness of the CD differences between the card skills and when you want to Spread on a more useful card you just drew but you cant because you were still holding onto the previous one. Considering the fact that you want to line up better card combos (not just ones involving Balance) with Royal Road, it makes all the sense that Draw, Spread and Royal Road should work synonymous of each other on the class.

As for Shuffle, I definitely feel the CD is slightly too long.
To be quite honest, Draw, Royal Road, and Shuffle should all have the same CD. This allows the player to choose more accurately how they interact with the cards they draw for the particular purpose of use it would better serve.

I do however think Shuffle redrawing the same card possibility should stay. As much as I despise it when it happens, it is quite accurate in the sense of shuffling cards and when considering we are talking about a deck of 6 cards, all the more reason we should include the possibility of redrawing the same card. Now if and when they add more cards to the mix, I would support Shuffle not being able to redraw the same card as that would be more accurate in the representation of actually shuffling with more cards on hand.

Like others said, losing cards from death seems odd as well.

The whole purpose of the system is the RNG and the lore of the role has everything to do with it.

My guess is that people want the best combos all the time and I don't think they are wrong, but we have to remember that every card is positive in a way.

RNG should only affect the drawing of the cards. Not how we handle them.

[416to305]

I'll just leave this here:



Additionally:
Confirmation bias
Luck of the draw

Right, but having Shuffle give you the same card is just a waste. It would be like playing as WHM and hitting Assize and only having it work 60-70% of the time, the rest of the time it just does absolutely nothing wasting it and forcing you to wait for it to be off cooldown again. It's basically the same, other then the cool down time being different, but pick any class ability that's on a cooldown and imagine popping it and only having it work sometimes, it's still a waste of an ability when you pull the exact same card when the whole purpose of that ability is really to get a different card. Even if the same card only comes up once in awhile, Shuffle is still one of our main abilities. So having the same card come up is just a waste of using it, making it the exact same as other classes popping an ability and having it just not work once in awhile. There's no other class I've played that I can think of, where you use one of your abilities that's on a 60 second cooldown, that only works once in awhile.

There's also nothing about the world "Shuffle" that means "Take the card already drawn, put it BACK into the deck and then shuffle." There's no reason it can't be draw a card, don't want it, then it gets put aside, you shuffle the remaining ones and get something different. It's stupid to take a card, be like I don't want this, put it BACK into the deck and shuffle.

[416to305]

My guess is that people want the best combos all the time and I don't think they are wrong, but we have to remember that every card is positive in a way.

They aren't though, that's the problem. They are all positive in a way, but not at all times. Other than for RR to do Expanded, there's no benefit to Ewer or Spire at the start of a battle. So to use an ability designed really to get you something else, and then have it pull the same card is useless. My issue is more when you get Ewer for example, so you RR it setting up a nice Expanded. You wait for Draw to come back up, you hit it, and get Spire. Look over, no one has any issues with TP at all, so you Shuffle and get Spire again. So now not only did I waste Draw since I'm not going to use Spire and waste my Expanded RR when no one needs TP, but I also wasted Shuffle by getting the same card. So you sit and wait for the Spire to run out of time, so that Draw can start its 30 second cooldown again and hope that this time you get something better. That's really the issue, Draw, RR it wait 30 seconds, get Spire, Shuffle it, get Spire again, wait 15 secs or whatever for it to go away, then 30 secs to Draw again. It's over a minute wasted just dealing with crappy cards. I have no problem with things being RNG, but I feel that Shuffle should really be our way of having some control over it. Even a longer cooldown but with a guaranteed different card would be better.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

You are comparing the wrong skills:
Assize is a press&result button with only one possible outcome: 300 potency in both healing and damage and recovers 10% of your maximum MP pool
Shuffle is basically a second chance on Draw and Draw gives you a random card with a random result

Now if Assize would have randomly dealt 300 potency damage or 300 potency healing, they'd be somewhat comparable. But it does not. Not liking drawing the same card? Well, too bad. That's the luck of the draw. It wouldn't make sense if you could filter out a specific card type out of a deck unless there's only one copy of it in it. There are no indications of your deck only holding six cards with no copies, but there are indications there are more than six cards. Simply look at the cards surrounding your starglobe. There's also the thing about confirmation memory; Have you actually kept track how often you didn't draw the same card with shuffle?

Are you indicating you actually want an unlimited amount of shuffles and spread? Because that's basically what you're saying: Draw -> Don't like -> Put it back (shuffle) -> Don't like -> Put it back (shuffle)

[416to305]

Are you indicating you actually want an unlimited amount of shuffles and spread? Because that's basically what you're saying: Draw -> Don't like -> Put it back (shuffle) -> Don't like -> Put it back (shuffle)

Naw, not going to get into it since you're putting words in my mouth but that's not what I said at all. I said Shuffle is an Ability that we get, just like Assize, Asylum, Tetra etc are all abilities that WHM gets. Assize was just an example off the top of my head, use Tetra since it has a 60 second cooldown as well. I never said I want unlimited shuffles, I said it shouldn't pull the same card, because if I shuffle a card I draw it's because it's useless to me at that moment. So it's the same thing as a WHM using Tetra on someone, but 20-30% of the time having it do absolutely nothing, yet still use the ability and starts the 60 second cooldown over. People would be so pissed if that was how it worked. Pulling a card, Shuffling and getting the same one is no different to me than popping Tetra, Assize or whatever, and having them do nothing, or only be 10% as potent as normal.

You're interpreting my post that I don't understand what Assize does. It was just an example, Tetra is a better one. Point is Shuffle isn't some ability everyone just starts the game with so use it if you want or don't if you don't want to. It's the level 45 ability which for WHM is Holy! It should do more than just burning a card giving the exact same one.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

Shuffle doesn't mention you'll avoid drawing the same card you have put back into the deck. Rather, it even mentions the card goes back into the deck thus you'll have a chance to re-draw it. Even if by some strange logic the deck consists of six cards with no duplicates - which isn't the case if you count the cards surrounding your starglobe. So exactly what is your gripe about the chance to re-draw the same card again? The fact there's actually a chance to draw a bad card while you only want the good cards?

[416to305]

Shuffle doesn't mention you'll avoid drawing the same card you have put back into the deck. Rather, it even mentions the card goes back into the deck thus you'll have a chance to re-draw it. Even if by some strange logic the deck consists of six cards with no duplicates - which isn't the case if you count the cards surrounding your starglobe. So exactly what is your gripe about the chance to re-draw the same card again? The fact there's actually a chance to draw a bad card while you only want the good cards?

You realize I'm not the OP right? I don't really see what you're trying to prove. We're discussing how we think Spread could be improved and what we don't like about it, and then you come on spewing the "facts" about it which everyone knows. We know how it works now. The fact of the matter is that the one and only single use of this ability is because you do not want the card you just got. There's absolutely nothing else that it does, other than shuffle the cards. It's a level 45 ability, where compared to WHM they get Holy, meaning it's not some skill everyone gets like limit break, where some classes use it, some don't. It's a full blown ability you get with the intention of shuffling to get a different card. There's zero logical reason anyone would want to shuffle and get the same card, none. So to use an ability, get the same card, even if by design, is just a lame aspect of it because it failed at the single reason you would use it.