An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Aelphais]

About Rentai's Life Points: I feel the current state of the battle system is too rapid and it is very easy to die, with a 10 point penalty I can't see anyone having many points ever unless they just sat AFK for a few days, but that shouldn't count and should such a system be implemented, I'm sure Square would have some sort of check for that.

I do feel that there needs to be additional punishment for death. Perhaps some sort of delayed durability loss on armor. So you die, and it puts a debuff on you that lasts X hours, when it runs out your character notices additional damage on the armor and drops the durability by 15% or so. That lets you keep going without having to rush back to repair, but still puts a cost on death other than a minute or so wait.

Or maybe a system like Guild Wars. You die and take 15% hit to HP, MP, TP and damage dealth for 30 minutes. Die again and it is 30%, 45%, 60%. Killing monsters successfully will reduce the % based on EXP gained, say 1000 EXP per 1%. At 60% it should be pretty difficult to accomplish anything. But this might lead to frustration with players repeatedly dying, so maybe the 30 minutes doesn't change with extra deaths. Worked better in Guild Wars due to the instanced design, but I think it could work with some modification.

[Rentahamster]

About Rentai's Life Points: I feel the current state of the battle system is too rapid and it is very easy to die, with a 10 point penalty I can't see anyone having many points ever unless they just sat AFK for a few days, but that shouldn't count and should such a system be implemented, I'm sure Square would have some sort of check for that.

Upon some more reflection, I agree that rewarding people with the "staying alive" bonus for being AFK or just for not playing in a while is a bad idea. My initial outline was also a tad too complex. It could use some simplifying.

As far as it being too easy to die and being really hard to achieve the "still alive" buff, that's sort of what I was going for. I wanted to make it relatively rare to have, so that you don't see everyone and their mother running around with the buff active. I also wanted the buff to not be that strong, so that it's not so bad when you lose it, but I still wanted the player to feel the sting of the loss of all that invested time.

I've rethought my idea and think that a hybrid of mine(http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post21748) and Stilla's (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/2097-An-open-discsusion-on-the-consequences-of-death?p=21796#post21796)idea would be interesting.

New Take on Death Penalty:

All SP that you gain as a battle class also contributes to fill up a separate rank up bar that has 5 tiers: rank 1 - 5.

Each rank takes 20,000 SP to reach, so to reach Rank 5, you'd need to accumulate 100,000 SP as any combination of battle classes without dying.

There are six bonus buffs that you can choose from: +5% atk, +5% def, +5% m.atk, +5% m.def, +5% eva, +5% acc, -10%MP cost, +10%TP gain, +2%SP gain

At Rank 4, you can choose one. At Rank 5, you can choose two, and you also get some sort of visual enhancement to your character to indicate your lack of dying. You can change your buffs around at anytime, but there is a 30 min cooldown.

If you die:
You lose 2 ranks
You lose 3 anima
You are inflicted with Weakness

If you die and get Raised:
You lose 1 rank
You are inflicted with Weakness

Again, I want the number of Rank 5 status people to be rare, and to actually be an indicator of skill, because it's hard to earn, and takes the same amount of effort to reach as going from class rank 49 to 50. That way, losing your rank 5 status is also a bit of a sting.

I also realize that some classes like tanks and mages are going to be more susceptible to death than other classes, but hey, those are the inherent risks that come with those classes, so you just grin and bear it.

[Aelphais]

That revised system makes a lot more sense than the original, although instead of the anima loss, it might as well just be a cost on return for death. If you get raised then you don't have to return. If you have 0 anima you can still return on death though.

This will also solve Yoshi-P's issue with death-teleporting, making it cost more anima to die and return than simply to return.

I do like how positive you are though. Both my suggestions were all about punishing people for dying rather than rewarding them for living, although Guild Wars did have the moral boost system which was opposite of death penalty, but that wasn't mentioned.

[Nephera]

Upon some more reflection, I agree that rewarding people with the "staying alive" bonus for being AFK or just for not playing in a while is a bad idea. My initial outline was also a tad too complex. It could use some simplifying.

As far as it being too easy to die and being really hard to achieve the "still alive" buff, that's sort of what I was going for. I wanted to make it relatively rare to have, so that you don't see everyone and their mother running around with the buff active. I also wanted the buff to not be that strong, so that it's not so bad when you lose it, but I still wanted the player to feel the sting of the loss of all that invested time.

I've rethought my idea and think that a hybrid of mine(http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post21748) and Stilla's (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/2097-An-open-discsusion-on-the-consequences-of-death?p=21796#post21796)idea would be interesting.

New Take on Death Penalty:

All SP that you gain as a battle class also contributes to fill up a separate rank up bar that has 5 tiers: rank 1 - 5.

Each rank takes 20,000 SP to reach, so to reach Rank 5, you'd need to accumulate 100,000 SP as any combination of battle classes without dying.

There are six bonus buffs that you can choose from: +5% atk, +5% def, +5% m.atk, +5% m.def, +5% eva, +5% acc, -10%MP cost, +10%TP gain, +2%SP gain

At Rank 4, you can choose one. At Rank 5, you can choose two, and you also get some sort of visual enhancement to your character to indicate your lack of dying. You can change your buffs around at anytime, but there is a 30 min cooldown.

If you die:
You lose 2 ranks
You lose 3 anima
You are inflicted with Weakness

If you die and get Raised:
You lose 1 rank
You are inflicted with Weakness

Again, I want the number of Rank 5 status people to be rare, and to actually be an indicator of skill, because it's hard to earn, and takes the same amount of effort to reach as going from class rank 49 to 50. That way, losing your rank 5 status is also a bit of a sting.

I also realize that some classes like tanks and mages are going to be more susceptible to death than other classes, but hey, those are the inherent risks that come with those classes, so you just grin and bear it.

ah you could call these brave/faith ranks.

I'm liking yoshida's solution though i'm wondering what he means by repair support.