Reclamation of Inactive Housing announced

[Yeldir]

I do not agree with vultures being a good analogy...
That is, unless we're all the vultures and only the first of us are getting to eat. It's quite similar to my own analogy, albeit more luck and nature being responsible for our meals and less controlled intent.

So, you don't agree! Good! I'm glad I was wrong about you. I apolog- wait a minute...

The examples could keep going, and I'm not even using the rude ones, just those who are ecstatic. While I feel for them and wish everyone could have a home, I still have the distinct feeling that if something tragic were to happen to me, many of the users here would care to know exactly when only so they could buy my plot the moment it hits the market. Whatever else can be said for this decision, it seems quite clear to me that the one indisputable thing it has done is show just how little compassion most of us have for ours peers. Perhaps it has even robbed some people here of empathy and sympathy they might otherwise possess.

Oh. You mean like vultures, waiting for you to drop, so they can pick your carcass? That's what you see from the people who want access to housing? So you expect them to do what vultures do, but you think my comparison is gauche, terrible and putting words in your mouth?

I also hesitated to reply at first and am only doing so now against my better judgement. I found your comparison to be more gauche, and the fact you introduced it only to try to belittle someone else for referring to all of us as vultures, to be the most insensitive thing I've read in this thread so far. Your twisting of the original reference to offend and incite your peers, escalating the tension of the debate, was deplorable. I have no trouble believing part of what you said is true though.

I think your attitude is deplorable. I think you pay lip service to the ideas of compassion and harmony, but at the end of the day, the only ideas I see you get behind are the ones that preserve the estates of the haves at the expense of the have nots. Your lofty words are so much doubletalk. If you were such a nice guy, you'd be willing to accept some self-sacrifice for the good of the community.

I know you know that reclamation is only step one. I know you know there'll be more lots, after, and I know you know that there's no point in making more lots if they all degenerate into server-devouring wastelands bereft of players. You choose to step around these facts because they don't suit you. Your fine words are hot air, because your ideas are rotten, selfish, and everything you say and do in this thread is transparent. Do you believe your own hogwash?

This thread has clearly indicated how important housing is to many users, and I hope that more get the opportunity to participate in this content. However, with the housing still being so limited, I fear most of those posting here still won't have a home, and their hopes will have been raised for naught. It seems like this decision truly hurts both current owners and those without, and that is one reason why I can not support it.

Oh, yeah, the opportunity to get homes really hurts those without homes. Because they might have to give them up if they quit!!! Tragic. Whatever, dude.

[Crimsonwolf3400]

I think you pay lip service to the ideas of compassion and harmony, but at the end of the day, the only ideas I see you get behind are the ones that preserve the estates of the haves at the expense of the have nots. Your lofty words are so much doubletalk. If you were such a nice guy, you'd be willing to accept some self-sacrifice for the good of the community.

I've yet to "get behind" any ideas posted. You really have no idea what I would support, but you make assumptions to further your cause. Your posts are inflammatory, your sarcasm is provocative, and your decision to ignore, fabricate, or twist statements posted by others is reminiscent of satirical, political pundits. If you're conscientious of your own nature, as you posted previously, I would ask that you please try to curb your self-stated aggression for the sake of productive discussion, unless your only intent is to incite other users.

I've shown nothing but support for the idea of those without a home getting one, and my own will be shared the first day I am able to. I would even go so far as to agree that some homes should be reclaimed, as there are undoubtedly those taking advantage of the system. I still can not support this system as it is being implemented though, as the flaws are numerous.

1) The spirit of the system is designed to open up housing as adding more is financially prohibitive, yet those who subscribe will still be evicted if they fail to enter their home.
2) The system does nothing to address the issue of people owning multiple homes across their account for the sake of resale.
3) The loss of irretrievable items is of considerable consequence and cost, and seems a hefty punishment to levy on players for what may be a temporary absence.
4) While my own subscription has not lapsed since launch, I have numerous friends and acquaintances who will take breaks, sometimes between patches, to the point where I would say that such a thing is commonplace. Yet the 45 day timer for demolition seems to enforce players to remain for every patch, despite their personal support or enjoyment of the introduced content.
5) The 35 day timer for storing removed housing items and the 80% plot refund is unexplainable for a system that is designed to only target inactive players.
6) This implementation is designed in spirit to provide housing to more people, yet the current announced plans will demolish homes being utilized by people other than the owner when it launches beside shared housing.
7) Despite all of these negatives, the majority of players will still be without a home, the current system will still be manipulated, and even a 33% increase of housing to accompany Ishgard estates would have little effect on the homeless population.

Most, if not all, arguments to those points will return us to the fight between those with and those without, in which there is no winner, or hoping for more in the future, which is what has been happening to lead us to this point. While some of my points I would be willing to concede individually, the accumulation of so many negatives is too significant to ignore.

The launch player who left after hitting 60 may lose his house to one who joined for HW and plays actively, who may in turn lose his house again if he gets bored to the original owner when they return for 3.3. Neither person "wins" in this scenario, and they have both actively lost something they worked for. While such shuffling of assets solves an immediate issue, even with some new wards, it has considerable potential to harm the player base long-term.

I would be just as happy as you would to see those who are hoarding land for profit, or those who have long since quit with no desire to return, to lose their plots to people who are more deserving. I just find that the flaws of this system outweigh the benefits, and it can't even promise the return of these very same homes to the active sale market.

[Yeldir]

I've yet to "get behind" any ideas posted. You really have no idea what I would support, but you make assumptions to further your cause. Your posts are inflammatory, your sarcasm is provocative, and your decision to ignore, fabricate, or twist statements posted by others is reminiscent of satirical, political pundits. If you're conscientious of your own nature, as you posted previously, I would ask that you please try to curb your self-stated aggression for the sake of productive discussion, unless your only intent is to incite other users.

Inflammatory? Provocative? You don't like being taken to the task for your own hypocrisies, like the vultures bit? Then stop posting. If you're inflamed by what I'm saying, you're inflamed with yourself.

Your list of 1-7 is at pretty weak, overall. The only really good item on there is #2.

1. Anyone who fails to enter their home for a full 45 days might as well be unsubbed, for the purposes of housing. This is ridiculous. Of course the house should go to someone who will actually use it.
2. Entirely true. These people should be targeted more ruthlessly.
3. This is a minor inconvenience, compared to the immense difficulty of securing housing. If you're wondering why they're doing this at all, it's actually pretty simple: SE is trying to keep the cost of these items high by ensuring their scarcity. This benefits crafters and players selling the materials for them.
4. Good. That means the only people who own homes will be the ones using them. Excellent. Everyone else - hit the street. Let's see some lively neighborhoods again!
5. It is explainable, although the truth tends to drive people up the wall. The short answer is deflationary gil destruction. Housing was implemented not merely as an amusement, but also as a means of removing gil from circulation by taking from the richest demographic of players. This reduces the disparity of held gil between the old money folks and new players. When housing filled up, this process ceased entirely. SE wants everyone involved in the homeowning process, as they're gaining or losing homes, to lose gil forever. Few people will ever accept this as positive, because people are inherently selfish, but it very good for noobs in the grand scheme of things.
6. Who utilizes homes owned by other people who aren't specifically sharing the home with them? People entering homes owned by dead accounts? Seriously, though - this one is absolutely necessary, or one character could prevent any number of homes from being reclaimed just by going from door to door.
7. 33%? Where are you getting this number? SE has stated the intend to start opening ward after ward to satisfy demand after the implementation of the reclaim system - and they have stated this is will happen before Ishgard housing. Ishgard housing is step 3.

[Niwashi]

5) The 35 day timer for storing removed housing items and the 80% plot refund is unexplainable for a system that is designed to only target inactive players.

5. It is explainable, although the truth tends to drive people up the wall. The short answer is deflationary gil destruction. Housing was implemented not merely as an amusement, but also as a means of removing gil from circulation by taking from the richest demographic of players. This reduces the disparity of held gil between the old money folks and new players. When housing filled up, this process ceased entirely. SE wants everyone involved in the homeowning process, as they're gaining or losing homes, to lose gil forever. Few people will ever accept this as positive, because people are inherently selfish, but it very good for noobs in the grand scheme of things.

Except this gil sink is working in reverse of that goal. It's a gil sink that very specifically targets players returning after a lengthy break from the game. That's not "the richest demographic". It's among the poorer demographics, players who are already behind the rest of the playerbase by not having played during recent content. Arbitrarily taking more items away from the poorer players who've already lost a house isn't a good place to put another gil sink. (Besides which, it's not just taking gil. It's taking trophys and mementos of past events, too.)

[Ibi]

33%? Where are you getting this number?

Adding Ishgard's housing wards to the wards of the existing three cities would increase the number of available plots by 33% (assuming they keep the existing cities the same and Ishgard has the same number of plots as the existing cities).