Immersion, The Facts & Fiction

[Konachibi]

With JUST the original game + RoTZ, it was 5 discs! 1 for POL, 1 for RoTZ, and 5 for the game itself! Then 2 more for CoP. After CoP they went to DVDs.

And yeah I forgot about the 1 year of JP only. So technically 2 years..? But that still means they got the first expansion at nearly the 1 year marker and the 2nd expansion right after the 2 year marker!

My FFXI came with 7 discs. 3 for the game, 1 for Rise Of The Zilart, 2 for Chains Of Promathia and 1 for PlayOnline + Tetra Master. I never did play Tetra Master...

A lot of people did complain on FFXIV release day though that the whole thing felt unfinished. As the case was, in many aspects it really was unfinished. I was very surprised when I discovered it was only 15gb to install, I was expecting with the graphics engine and what FF games are normally like in relation to the size of the world that it was going to be at least 30-40gb. After playing for a short amount of time though, I came to realise why it was only 15gb.

However since it took 5 years to develop what they had of the game maybe they felt it better to release it in the state it was in (core game done, content not added) then add stuff, than spend another year or two adding extra content before release (core game + contents, after release begin begin expansion pack). If that was the case it was a very bad decision.

From what they've said in patch notes and info though it sounds like patch 1.21 is basically going to be what would be better called 1.00 in terms of content making it a complete and marketable game to sell in shops and then expand on.

[Catapult]

blah blah blah blah immersion blah blah blah rage blah blah blah...

[Konachibi]

blah blah blah blah immersion blah blah blah rage blah blah blah...

Exactly the reason the thread was made, to stop those kinds of posts we all hate so much.

[Kirith]

The more i re-read the statement in which the OP states that he/she isn't trolling, the more i struggle to believe it. By speaking as if you were the only correct user of the english language on these forums and attempting to teach a whole forum (comprised of adults, other than minors) the meaning of simple english definitions, you are the worst, most self-absorbed troll i have ever seen.

Everything you say is sophistry of the lowest category, to boot.

"Immersion" as defined in a videogame is the following (taken from your link):

2. (often passive; often foll by in) to involve deeply; engross "to immerse oneself in a problem"

Literally, letting oneself plunge into a different world is its meaning in relation to videogames.
Very simply, it is the act of believing to belong to an imaginary world to a certain extent.

Since it is a feeling, you can't make an absolute quantification concerning immersion. Every person has their own perception of it.

When people argue something hurts their immersion, it means said thing is preventing them from plunging into the fantasy world deeper, which is perfectly legiptimate, it's simply a personal judgement of how good of a lie this fantasy world is.

Roleplaying is letting oneself immerse almost completely in a fantasy world, for example, to the point of becoming a character of that world, acting as such.

And that's all there is to it. Someone as misled as yourself should never attempt something as outrageous as this ever again.
Better yet, i demand this thread is closed immediately, as a direct insult to the intelligence of all the forum members.

[Konachibi]

The more i re-read the statement in which the OP states that he/she isn't trolling, the more i struggle to believe it. By speaking as if you were the only correct user of the english language on these forums and attempting to teach a whole forum (comprised of adults, other than minors) the meaning of simple english definitions, you are the worst, most self-absorbed troll i have ever seen.

Everything you say is sophistry of the lowest category, to boot.

"Immersion" as defined in a videogame is the following (taken from your link):

2. (often passive; often foll by in) to involve deeply; engross "to immerse oneself in a problem"

Literally, letting oneself plunge into a different world is its meaning in relation to videogames.
Very simply, it is the act of believing to belong to an imaginary world to a certain extent.

Since it is a feeling, you can't make an absolute quantification concerning immersion. Every person has their own perception of it.

When people argue something hurts their immersion, it means said thing is preventing them from plunging into the fantasy world deeper, which is perfectly legiptimate, it's simply a judgement of how good of a lie this fantasy world is.

Roleplaying is letting oneself immerse almost completely in a fantasy world, for example, to the point of becoming a character of that world, acting as such.

And that's all there is to it. Someone as misled as yourself should never attempt something as outrageous as this ever again.
Better yet, i demand this thread is closed immediately, as a direct insult to the intelligence of all the forum members.

I have it on good grounds that this is a GAME that features a WORLD. To be immersed in a GAME you have to be playing the GAME. To be immersed in a WORLD you have to be in that WORLD. The WORLD of FFXIV is only part of the GAME. To be immersed in FFXIV's WORLD you have to be immersed in the GAME. If you cannot accept the GAME, you cannot accept the WORLD. Therefore the problem isn't with parts of the games mechanics, the problem is with the player that doesn't like those mechanics.

You cannot immerse yourself in water without being IN the water. If you don't like being immersed in water, don't get in the water.

Get it? Or did I just insult your lack of 'intelligence'?

[zaviermhigo]

While I agree that too many people argue about immersion incorrectly, i do not agree with the OP when saying they say that certain aspects of the game are immersion. When you think about a game world its not the UI that immerses you its the actual game play, sure UI can be part of gameplay, but once you get over how to use the UI its pretty much behind you in immersion. Immersion is subjective, how can one say "that's part of the game, it IS immersion" when to another its just a bit of coding (programming).

[IStolzI]

This post is to give people a defined definition of the word 'immersion'. It is designed to STOP people raging on about immersion

You're a liar. This thread was obviously made to have hundreds of posts. It has nothing to do with stopping anything. This very much so is grounds to start an arguement.

[Kirith]

I have it on good grounds that this is a GAME that features a WORLD. To be immersed in a GAME you have to be playing the GAME. To be immersed in a WORLD you to be in that world. The WORLD of FFXIV is only part of the GAME. To be immersed in FFXIV's WORLD you have to be immersed in the GAME. If you cannot accept the GAME, you cannot accept the WORLD. Therefore the problem isn't with parts of the games mechanics, the problem is with the player that doesn't like those mechanics.

You cannot immerse yourself in water without being IN the water. If you don't like being immersed in water, don't get in the water.

Get it? Or did I just insult your lack of 'intelligence'?

Let's say you have a sphere.
You put it in the water.
Half of the sphere is immersed in the water. The sphere is half immersed.
If the sphere goes completely under the surface of water, it is completely immersed.

As you can see, there are different levels of immersion. A person decides how much to be immersed in a game, based on how believable the world is. Teleporting for many people isn't believable, thus it doesn't let them immerse fully.

"If you cannot accept the GAME, you cannot accept the WORLD."

Not accepting one feature of the game doesn't mean not accepting the whole game or the whole world! I accept the grass, the trees, even the monsters, the special attacks, but i don't accept teleporting, it is too convenient and not believable! Yet i don't mind it stays implemented because it only lowers my immersion a little! For certain people it breaks immersion completely, based on their own personalities!

You can't go tell them "you have no right to say something breaks your immersion", simply because it DOES. Now that is an actual fact.

[Zetonegi]

Exactly the reason the thread was made, to stop those kinds of posts we all hate so much.

I think I need music for this

There is one teensy-weensy little problem with that... it won't You're posting in a forum that has had 5 different threads on AHs/MWs... on the first page at the same time... There is no end-all thread to a topic people care about here because someone will decide THEIR idea deserves its own thread instead of bumping an existing thread. Now if you will be so kind as to stop posting and let this thread die like you should every other thread that you think is stupid. If something is actually problematic there are nice people with GM avatars that can take care of it. If you have a problem with how the moderators and administrators run this forum then I suggest you stop coming here because there is nothing you can do about that. Otherwise, accept the fact that people will post stupid threads, as evidenced by this one, and leave the ones you don't care about alone. Although you may find it hard, it is possible to not post in every thread on the front page and still be a constructive member of the forums.

[Konachibi]

While I agree that too many people argue about immersion incorrectly, i do not agree with the OP when saying they say that certain aspects of the game are immersion. When you think about a game world its not the UI that immerses you its the actual game play, sure UI can be part of gameplay, but once you get over how to use the UI its pretty much behind you in immersion. Immersion is subjective, how can one say "that's part of the game, it IS immersion" when to another its just a bit of coding (programming).

The first reply with a legitimate counter to it.

I do agree that some parts of the game do get players more involved than other parts, that's a given, some people like leves, some people like crafting, some people like the main story arc. It's fair enough.

But I won't accept people arguing and demanding the removal of something in the game that apparently 'ruins their immersion' just because they don't like it being there. The thing they don't like that's in the game is there for a reason, that's why it was put there, therefore, for all extent and purposes, it is part of the games immersion whether they like it or not.

For example, someone complains about the ability to skip the airship ride and says it ruins the immersion. For someone else that doesn't like wasting 2 minutes of their time travelling on an airship they can skip it and get to the bits of the game they do like quicker which then allows that player to be more immersed BECAUSE they were allowed to skip something that someone else states is immersion. It is subjective but it all plays a part in the entire gameplay as a whole. Therefore, the entire game is immersive in it's own existance, what parts immerse players the most depends on what they prefer out of it, not what they don't like about it, and the things they don't like they shouldn't complain about because other people do like it.

Unless there can be a gamewide poll so that everyone can vote on what they believe is 'not immersive' and everyone votes for one particular thing, nothing in the game at all can be considered 'not immersive'.