Reclamation of Inactive Housing announced

[Nalien]

snip

Well, I've said in the past that I do think 45 days is too short, though at least initially I think it works for what this is primarily intended for; Freeing up plots owned by people who no longer play at all. We should want those plots freed up as soon as possible, active players are unlikely to be taking a break right after 3.1, after all, so a shorter timer shouldn't really affect anyone initially. In the long run though, I do think they should perhaps raise it to 90 or something.

[SinisterJointss]

Yup this guy <3 he gets it Kamikrazy you can't argue with the White Knights though lol

Get's what? What is there to get? Oh... nothing

So you have to always be subscribed or else your 50 million gil investment that took you months of work goes up in smoke? Should they also implement a 45 day timer where your gil starts vanishing from your inventory because other players might need it? And should they also take away your retainer's levels and gear as well? What about your character name after 45 days? How about they also make your gear go down ilevel by 50 for every 45 days you are offline?

It seems like a really cheap shot to keep people subscribed, it isn't a solution to fix the housing availability problem. Fixing the housing availability problem could be done in a ton of ways, none of which involve forcing players to login within an arbitary time frame that just so happens to guarantee you have to stay subscribed at all times or else.

It's not a cheap shot to keep people subscribed. Its to free up plots from all these house owners who have vanished from the face of eorzea. If you cant be bothered to log in once in 45 days then you dont need a house. If you are actively subbed AND PLAYING and cant be bothered to go to your house in 45 days then... you dont need a house.

[Ibi]

No where in the ToS does it say that a single subscription fee payment affords you the right to hold onto, indefinitely, the server space allotted to housing. Doesn't even say that for your character data from what I remember, in fact I'm fairly sure it states something to the opposite effect; That at any time they could effectively delete you character for whatever reasons they want.

So if you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted your character, your reaction would be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

There was never an agreement that housing plots were yours for life. There was never mention of losing them in this manner, either, but I'm fairly certain the ToS, which we all agreed to, lets them hold the right to do things exactly like this. Actually, if anything I recall mention that SE could demolish your plot if they suspected RMT involvement, this then, is nothing more than an addendum to that.

When the lead developer says "these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won’t have any system like that" I think it's reasonable to expect that they won't have any system like that, and to be shocked, disappointed, and voice criticisms when they announce a system like that.

[Blood-Aki]

So if you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted your character, your reaction would be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

Yes, because losing your character is the exact same as losing a full vanity based content. That can be replaced with enough gill. Great example.

[StouterTaru]

Well, I've said in the past that I do think 45 days is too short, though at least initially I think it works for what this is primarily intended for; Freeing up plots owned by people who no longer play at all. We should want those plots freed up as soon as possible, active players are unlikely to be taking a break right after 3.1, after all, so a shorter timer shouldn't really affect anyone initially. In the long run though, I do think they should perhaps raise it to 90 or something.

I have a feeling that they will extend it, and the 45 days was just cut off the dead weight before Christmas.

Adding personal housing to the open world was a horrible idea. I'm all for SE adding in chocobo care & gardening from other methods, and slowly getting rid of personal housing altogether.

[Ibi]

Yes, because losing your character is the exact same as losing a full vanity based content. That can be replaced with enough gill. Great example.

The argument was "there was always an agreement that SE can do pretty much whatever they damn well like with your character data, virtual items (and thus housing) included."

Deleting your character is a subset of "pretty much whatever they damn well like", so while it's obviously not the same, Nailen's argument was that once you've agreed to the TOS, you must accept any and all decisions SE make, without complaint.

[Blood-Aki]

The argument was "there was always an agreement that SE can do pretty much whatever they damn well like with your character data, virtual items (and thus housing) included."

Deleting your character is a subset of "pretty much whatever they damn well like", so while it's obviously not the same, Nailen's argument was that once you've agreed to the TOS, you must accept any and all decisions SE make, without complaint.

They can, but for whatever reason they would have to delete your character you would most likely get banned anyway. which is pretty much the same thing, All of what we use is the property of SE. and we all agreed they can do whatever they want. But like any business, they won't just go around deleting characters because they feel like it, or that will make for some very upset people and massive loss of business,

My point, however, was comparing your character to housing plots is not a good example.

[Nalien]

So if you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted your character, your reaction would be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

No, I'd be pretty outraged, though I'd have no grounds to sue them or anything over it. If, however, they said "If you don't log in for X days, we'll delete your character to save space", which is much closer to what is happening with housing (though housing data is likely far more robust than character data), I'd be OK with that, provide X was something reasonable, like a year or two... The difference is how reasonable something is, just straight up deleting ones character is unreasonable, going "We'll give you warning, but if you're not going to keep playing, we're eventually going to free up some space by removing your character" is, at least IMO, reasonable. The key is the time frame given, which is the only thing I'd take any issue with here.

When the lead developer says "these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won’t have any system like that" I think it's reasonable to expect that they won't have any system like that, and to be shocked, disappointed, and voice criticisms when they announce a system like that.

True, he is going back on his word (is anyone surprised by that? Going back to the ToS, that's basically what it's for... That's why I brought it up, not because I'm fine with them just straight up deleting players stuff without warning...), but the thing is... Back then they didn't anticipate how popular the game was going to be, this games launch was an abject lesson in that... The current housing system, with no reclamation system, might have worked for the number of subscribers they expected around launch (at which point most of this stuff would be beyond the planning stage...), we'll never know if that was the case though, because the game turned out to be far more popular than they'd ever imagined, and it would seem to be slowly growing... When all this stuff was being set up, they never expected how much demand there would be for the actual game, let alone its virtual housing...

Back when I think it was a case of "Oh sure, I doubt we'll fill all the Wards anyway...", but now it's a case of "How many subscribers do we have?! We can't afford that many servers!", and a saving has to be made somewhere. Would you rather they start charging real money for plots? That's certainly the best way to get more cash for servers while dealing with the issue (worked for Retainers, after all). I'd certainly rather they simply start evicting non-players to free up some space.

[Ibi]

we all agreed they can do whatever they want. But like any business, they won't just go around deleting characters because they feel like it, or that will make for some very upset people and massive loss of business,

The bolded text highlights the point I'm trying to make.

Nailen's argument was "You signed a TOS saying they're allowed to do this, so you shouldn't complain." My argument is that if you're going to make that argument, you have to apply it unilaterally, you can't just pick and choose.

My point, however, was comparing your character to housing plots is not a good example.

Fine, since you can't get over the specifics of the example to focus on the actual point:

If you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted all your glamour items/companions/mounts/titles/achievements, would your reaction be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

[raelgun]

more active than you (or more deserving than you)

You have no idea how much this made me laugh IRL, if this is the state of the playerbase and their opinions then it cements all the more that this is truly the worst playerbase in mmo history.