If the Meta Feels Off, How Do We Actually Change It? A response to "Four Ways to Die"

[eagledorf]

There's nothing really wrong with the style where tanks attempt to maximize DPS, the problem is right now that's all there is to the tank job.

In all of Alexander Savage, there are two times you need to use cooldowns (Plasma in A1 and Perpetual Ray after Royal Pentacle in A4) and 0 times you need your tank stance or anything other than STR accessories. If DPS is supposed to lend depth to the tank job, there either needs to be constant give and take and a few moments where you actually need to choose survivability over DPS or we need our rotations to be blown up to Summoner proportions.

[Syzygian]

So tanks are only supposed to pop cooldowns in 2 spots out of all of alex savage and be out of tank stance the entire time...

Remind me again why we hate healers so much?

[CGMidlander]

There's nothing really wrong with the style where tanks attempt to maximize DPS, the problem is right now that's all there is to the tank job.

In all of Alexander Savage, there are two times you need to use cooldowns (Plasma in A1 and Perpetual Ray after Royal Pentacle in A4) and 0 times you need your tank stance or anything other than STR accessories. If DPS is supposed to lend depth to the tank job, there either needs to be constant give and take and a few moments where you actually need to choose survivability over DPS or we need our rotations to be blown up to Summoner proportions.

It's more than two times lol
You forgot Drainage in A3S, and depending on strat, some parts of A2S

[Sapphidia]

You forgot Drainage in A3S, and depending on strat, some parts of A2S

To me, A2S actually leaps out as being an encounter that's quite nicely balanced as far as tanking styles go. There's a lot of semi-predictable burst that comes in large amounts, there's various strats you can use, and whilst Warriors and Dark Knights can contribute heavily towards the speed ofthe encounter via their superior AOE, the high physical mitigation that paladins offer, coupled with some actually useful utility like Cover and HG in some of the more awkward waves, make this in my eyes the most "balanced" encounter in Alex when talking about the two tanking styles of glass cannon dps vs brick wall. You kinda want a bit of both here, and both extreme can be decent depending on strat.

Tanks certainly do gain benefit from being tanky here - whilst it's doable in slaying gear, the onus on DPS is more on good use of the gobwalker debuffs and excellent AOE rotations from the DPSers. Tanks can help but arent as essential as they are in the other turns with their more strict enrage timers. Even stacking lots of health was a viable thing when it first came out, as there's a lot of potential burst possible depending on how you split up the debuffers and jagd dolls.

Of course, most will say A2S is perhaps the easiest of the turns, and I doubt it's anyone's favorite. But still, the mechanics of the fight and the juggling of balance between wanting tanks that can tank loads of incoming bursty damage vs tanks that just output high dps means it's far less of a contributing fight to the current meta feel. I feel just as useful as a paladin with pentamelds on that fight as I would as a warrior with pure slaying. It's just a different kind of usefulness.

[eagledorf]

Ah, yeah Drainage is another place you need something, I forgot about that.

Not that having everything be about tank busters that oneshot you without a cooldown is a great thing, but at least it's something.

You don't really ever need anything in A2S if you're ok with making your healers and battery miserable (or can dodge Katstrahl). I mean, it would be horrible if you didn't use anything, but you won't get oneshot by not doing it. Maybe in the last wave...

I do agree A2 was one of the better turns for tanks as there were lots of ways to handle it and it did hit reasonably hard in short bursts. I think the only thing I don't like about that turn is the amount of responsibility and lack of complexity the car operator ends up with for so much of the fight.