IMO - If this game is to stay relevant - the gameplay needs a massive overhaul

[Sapphic]

Just because I have to point it out, MMORPGs are action RPGs by default. They can't be anything else, because the genre has to be played in real time.

In regards to the main topic at hand however, Final Fantasy XIV is suffering from two things at the moment, the first is skill bloat.

Yet myself and everyone I know has zero issues with the number of abilities, If it keeps going on the same with later expansions we will get skill bloat I agree.

[Sapphic]

I would also direct this comment to the vast majority of MMOs.

Well to back up your claim, give me an example of one subscription based action MMORPG that is at least as succesful as FFXIV.

[Shurrikhan]

Just because I have to point it out, MMORPGs are action RPGs by default. They can't be anything else, because the genre has to be played in real time.

In regards to the main topic at hand however, Final Fantasy XIV is suffering from two things at the moment, the first is skill bloat. It's apparent on every Job for every role that there are just too many "core" skills.

Even then, if only due to how vaguely "action" (MMO)RPGs are defined, there could be a world of difference between being an RPG played in "real-time" and an "action" RPG. Granted, I myself probably have unusual criteria for defining an action mmorpg as such, so I'll refrain from going into that. (Tldr; a close relationship between visuals and effect, where small factors largely ignored by the math of "tab-MMOs" can have significant effect and fine control variance thereby lends additional options.)

I think you've hit the nail on the head with just what causes the "skill bloat" in this game. On first read I had to keep myself from jumping the gun to pointing out that it isn't so much an issue of bloating alone, as relatively few action options provided for despite an immense number of key-binds, taking up nearly the maximum if not slightly too much bar space already, and providing little synergy or flow to the abilities... essentially agreeing in different, less skillfully put, words.

To me, if anything, the number of abilities actually largely detracts from the core elements, themes, and mechanics of the class, or at least from the potential they'd otherwise have if gameplay made deeper, more intuitive, and/or more creative use of fewer total keys. Just imagine if we had the button space to regularly use a
- 'Link' Key, allowing us to enlarge an allied Fire attack with a wind ability, to generate additional effects from certain abilities being used in combination or succession, perhaps with additional positional elements
- or a 'Special/Alternate' Key, allowing us to switch the priority of a spell or ability (e.g. from a Windbite functioning as a DoT to a distraction or buff-ripper [Shrieking/Scouring Shot in 1.0], Aero to instead create a whirl of Air around the enemy, briefly blinding him, channel Aero II around an enemy to attempt to suffocate it while keeping short debuffs from dispersing, empower Aero III to throw enemies outward and about or create a pocket of air beneath them that lightens them in preparation for launching them into the air via a Full Thrust, Inner Beast, Aeolian Edge, Forbidden Chakra, Fire III).
- etc., etc.

Even without all that, just building some deeper combat undermechanics could greatly increase the amount of decisions made and party-integration experienced in combat. Who knows, we might even be able to see abilities as actually doing something alike to their animations, rather than animations being only vaguely paired with the respective potency and 'additional effect's.

[Mycow8me]

I just dont understand why combos cant be automated. It could eliminate a few different hotbar skills. Simply pressing the same button could automatically go to the next chain in the combo instead of a different hotbar button. Only stipulation would be skills where the combo differentiates.

Theres been plenty of threads concerning ideas for "running out of circles" which imo is the lamest aspect concerning action in this game. Honestly the only reason this game feels somewhat actiony is dodging circles in the first place which is its weak point. Ffxi has hidden aoe zones that were dodgable for crying out loud and its not considered (or labeled) an action rpg.

[DragonHunterG]

i do remember reading in some interview, yoshi said that FFXIV isn't aimed at next generation MMORPG gameplay or breaking any molds necessarily, but that it's basically the last of the last generation MMORPG.

[Ashkendor]

Just because I have to point it out, MMORPGs are action RPGs by default. They can't be anything else, because the genre has to be played in real time.

That's just it, though - sure they're both played in real time, but there's worlds of difference between your typical MMO setup (WoW, FFXIV, etc) and a game that bills itself as an action MMO. Action MMO's tend to do away with tab targeting and actually make you aim. Often times mobs (and other players) can be staggered/juggled, bounced off walls, etc. The action is faster paced and you typically react based on cast animations rather than bars. Basically, they tend to play more like a 3d fighting game than an MMORPG.

[Kurogaea]

The overhaul most likely won't happen, SE's too proud of their gameplay for that. To be frank the gameplay is rather flat-line when you think about it.

Go to a dungeon, follow the path, kill mobs, follow the path some more, kill mobs, fight boss guy (WATCH OUT IT "BLANK"S EVERYONE IF YOU DO THIS CERTAIN THING) beat it, Moooooooobsssssss, BOSS (STAND OVER HERE FOR BLANK TO BLANK THE BLANKITY BLANK AND BLANK ITS BLANK) rinse and repeat. Grinding explains itself. Story, remarkable.......thats it. I think people have more fun with the lore than anything else. I recommend roleplaying with some neat friends dude if the gameplay bugs ya and I don't mean like RPG Roleplaying. I feel like the term warped or its been the same but I never noticed. I like to be in control of my role, but this game demands that I do a certain thing and stick to it with real lack of diversity.....it sucks. But Skyrim is an RPG and I can do anything at the same time.....Disgaea is an RPG and I can make a priest be the most powerful swordsman/gunner ever.....wtf??

Idk lol, just find something you like about 14 and stick with it. Me personally I find PvP something to enjoy while wasting my life away farming crystals. Its always different with new teams (Mostly) and different faces (Hopefully if you in Flames) and new strategies to win (If your not in Flames on the Primal Server). I'd like to see a different gameplay style for PvP though, it'd make sense actually. Raiding is for big groupies in which I don't have so, meh, good for some, not for Kitty And social activity is what facebook and life is for. If I need those things to make this game fun then somethings wrong, obviously.

[Duelle]

I understand what you're saying but you're asking SE to change FF into a completely different game.

I agree with Canadane though, horizontal progression would be great.

You might want to be specific about this. If you're asking for crap like gear swapping mid-combat, I'm not going to support that. If you want to have 5-6 body pieces of the same i-level with different stat allocations (one having more crit, one having more determination, etc), I might get behind that. You'd still have BiS lists but you'd also have more filler gear.

[Morningstar1337]

.....Disgaea is an RPG and I can make a priest be the most powerful swordsman/gunner ever.....wtf??

Much as I like Disgaea I have to say that if it is considered an ROG, than so does Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy Tactics (granted by legacy the latter can already be consider an RPG and there are some RPG influences in the other two as well)

[Kurogaea]

snip

I see what you mean about legacies. RPG by privilege I guess. Kinda like some Resident Evils that seem more like action shooters than survival horror, but they're horror anyway through previous titles. I know Fire Emblem and Tactics are RPGs, just never played them to make the difference between other genres. Oh theres another game too, White Knight Chronicles is an RPG where your roleplay actually feels legit too. Full range of classes and even mix match them. Your character might be a mute of sorts and choices are barren most of the time, but the combat leaves you with free reign over a battle. Even if your mainly a healer theres still plenty skill points to have a second class to fight, even an Axe Wielder. I rocked a Longsword/ElementalMage, loved it.