If you could kill off one of the scions...

[Belhi]

From a narrative standpoint,

I was disappointed that the events in Ul'dah seemed to just fizzle out. It kind of made the build up seem rather pointless. It wasn't cause it facilitated a major shake up for the Scions and set the tone for the start of HW but it still felt kind of a let down and a rather over elaborate way of doing those things.

Having said that the stuff in Ishgard made up for it pretty well. There was nothing simple of neat about the situation in Ishgard in HW and right and wrong were all not clear cut lines. Plus even though we scored a victory at the end, the repercussions of what we started haven't even begun to rain down on us. 3.1 will start on that as the massive culture shock Ishgard is going to experience will begin to hit home and the chaos such a thing will cause will begin to show. The other obvious issue is the Garleans. They still have access to all that Allagan tech. Who knows what they might be able to pry out of that place.

[Tenkuu]

From a narrative standpoint,

I was disappointed that the events in Ul'dah seemed to just fizzle out. It kind of made the build up seem rather pointless. It wasn't cause it facilitated a major shake up for the Scions and set the tone for the start of HW but it still felt kind of a let down and a rather over elaborate way of doing those things.

Having said that the stuff in Ishgard made up for it pretty well. There was nothing simple of neat about the situation in Ishgard in HW and right and wrong were all not clear cut lines. Plus even though we scored a victory at the end, the repercussions of what we started haven't even begun to rain down on us. 3.1 will start on that as the massive culture shock Ishgard is going to experience will begin to hit home and the chaos such a thing will cause will begin to show. The other obvious issue is the Garleans. They still have access to all that Allagan tech. Who knows what they might be able to pry out of that place.

This is simply a result of the Monetarists having far less power than they anticipated. They couldn't sway the people in favor of mistrusting us and they needed Nanamo too much to truly off her. Plus, we had no intention of simply letting things go after the harm they caused the Scions.

As far as 3.0 goes, tbh for me the game without the Scions is just not the same. It felt like all we did was randomly poke our heads into other people's business just because as Scions, we like to solve other people's problems for them. The fact that there are more shades of grey in HW than in ARR reinforced that feeling for me. It felt outright wrong to be invading the Aery and killing the numerous dragons there, and it did not at all feel like Nidhogg was unreasonable. If I killed your sister, would you be obliged to forgive and forget? It's simply a matter of dragon lives being quite so long that makes this war as drawn-out as it is, but I cannot bring myself to disapprove of Nidhogg's fury and need for vengeance.

[Cilia]

snip

The Monetarists can't off Nanamo because she's a beloved figure. No other reason. Our reputation was a factor, but there was enough power to keep the city on lockdown and have the truth suppressed to the point nobody really knew what happened outside hushed rumors.

I didn't mind not having the Scions around, but the first act of Heavensward (up to Nidhogg's defeat) was rather long and done entirely in recompense for Ishgard sheltering us. Our rescue attempt then leads into the second act, which is done entirely because we're the Scions and primal slaying is our MO.

Nidhogg's rage is understandable, but it's the fact that he's pointing it at people undeserving of it that puts him in the wrong. The people who wronged him he either killed or are long dead, and the Dragonsong War is not a war meant to be won - it's an eternal punishment upon Isghard, even though modern Ishgardians are lied to as to why they're fighting their war against the Dravanian Horde. It's not that his fury is wrong, but that it's entirely misplaced, and he has no intention of ever giving it up. Thus, in order to save countless lives and save countless more from becoming enslaved to Nidhogg's vengeance, we put him down.

Yes, dragon lifetimes are far longer than that of a mortal's, but that excuse wore very thin. If it's Thordan and his Knights Twelve who wronged you, and they're dead, why do you need to continue exacting vengeance upon their children, and their children's children, for eternity?

[Fenral]

If I killed your sister, would you be obliged to forgive and forget? It's simply a matter of dragon lives being quite so long that makes this war as drawn-out as it is, but I cannot bring myself to disapprove of Nidhogg's fury and need for vengeance.

All the people he was mad at were long dead, and his "vengeance" after that was just giving the descendants of those people a legitimate reason to want to fight back, as people they knew were killed by dragons under his command. He planned to drag out the conflict in Ishgard indefinitely, deliberately seeding in them a hatred of dragons that he could then play as his moral justification. Without breaking the cycle, neither side could heal, but even knowing that he chose to persist in his vengeance, making things worse for his own kind as well.

Would you really ask another 1000 years of Ishgardians to simply hang in there and die so he can eventually sort out his issues, because killing him would be wrong? 1000 years of Dravanians to hang in there while they are killed in misdirected retaliation? The WoL has killed people for far less, and by the time we got there pretty much anyone who wanted to save him had tried and failed, Hraesvelgr included. If there was some hypothetical way to rehabilitate him without allowing him to cause further loss of life, that would be one thing, but in the absence of that letting him live would be the same as condemning all of Ishgard and a good portion of Dravania to die.

[Frederick22]

If there was some hypothetical way to rehabilitate him without allowing him to cause further loss of life, that would be one thing, but in the absence of that letting him live would be the same as condemning all of Ishgard and a good portion of Dravania to die.

You mean that his father would be the only one who could make him see reason?

[Tenkuu]

All the people he was mad at were long dead, and his "vengeance" after that was just giving the descendants of those people a legitimate reason to want to fight back, as people they knew were killed by dragons under his command. He planned to drag out the conflict in Ishgard indefinitely, deliberately seeding in them a hatred of dragons that he could then play as his moral justification. Without breaking the cycle, neither side could heal, but even knowing that he chose to persist in his vengeance, making things worse for his own kind as well.

Would you really ask another 1000 years of Ishgardians to simply hang in there and die so he can eventually sort out his issues, because killing him would be wrong? 1000 years of Dravanians to hang in there while they are killed in misdirected retaliation? The WoL has killed people for far less, and by the time we got there pretty much anyone who wanted to save him had tried and failed, Hraesvelgr included. If there was some hypothetical way to rehabilitate him without allowing him to cause further loss of life, that would be one thing, but in the absence of that letting him live would be the same as condemning all of Ishgard and a good portion of Dravania to die.

I don't agree that what he's doing is right, but I also don't think it's right for us to pick a side in this. Sure, the innocent Isgardians don't deserve to die, but then they should have found a way to work out their problems themselves, and in a way that would not further antagonize Dravanians. Handling it ourselves makes us look good, but what real reason does Midgarsormr have for trusting them at this point, other than simple faith? He is literally going on faith alone at this point, and not even faith in them, but in us. Essentially, what we've done is cement into everyone's minds the idea that if anything ever goes wrong again, they can call on us to fix it for them. The Scions, you'll recall, are generally not fond of meddling into others' affairs just for the heck of it. That's even the reason we moved to Mor Dhona.

I see people saying things like that the Warrior of Light is the Scions' gun to be pointed at what they deem a threat, but the Scions themselves have been used as guns by just about every nation, and often those nations were not even in the right, like Limsa Lominsa's conflict with the Kobolds and Sahagins. I think what was needed in this case was us providing solid assistance rather than doing all of the work, as was the case when we went for Praetorium. That was a joint effort and this was what was required this time too.