The issue nobody wants to address

[Whiteroom]

I share your opinion. Let me quote myself from the other thread:

Still this would get nerfed. People would cry that the bar was set unreasonably high. It's not until people are faced with what their actual numbers are, and that their bar is unreasonably low that you would see a change.

Edit: Not that I wouldn't enjoy this mechanic and others like it. I just think it may be a waste if it will just get nerfed with the way the community is now. I think adding it after a parser is the way to go.

Unlike the original person you quoted though, I'm not for creating walls to prevent people from progressing. I'm hugely in favor of creating challanging content that pushes players to get better though, so that the game itself can progress and get more challanging.

[dank1]

Still this would get nerfed. People would cry that the bar was set unreasonably high. It's not until people are faced with what their actual numbers are, and that their bar is unreasonably low that you would see a change.

Edit: Not that I wouldn't enjoy this mechanic and others like it. I just think it may be a waste if it will just get nerfed with the way the community is now. I think adding it after a parser is the way to go.

Maybe add it as a 3rd "expert" dungeon with lets say double the esoteric gain with a much (or decent) dps check, doesnt have to be somethig where dps are left to fend for themselves but still something where people need to pull their weight. It doesnt even need to be part of a roulette and actually i'd prefer it not to be but maybe people will realize hey if I improve I can cap my eso faster.

Another idea I had was maybe a bonus for the highest dps in the group, I realize this would be unfair to healers and to an extent tanks (but not in my case, shameless brag but I tend to be the highest dps as an overgeared tank most of the time in exp dungeons) but for the sake of everyone, I guess, it'd encourage faster runs and everyone would benefit directly or indirectly from dps actually trying to perform rather than "netflix and chilling" while they run a dungeon

[Whiteroom]

Maybe add it as a 3rd "expert" dungeon with lets say double the esoteric gain with a much (or decent) dps check, doesnt have to be somethig where dps are left to fend for themselves but still something where people need to pull their weight. It doesnt even need to be part of a roulette and actually i'd prefer it not to be but maybe people will realize hey if I improve I can cap my eso faster.

Another idea I had was maybe a bonus for the highest dps in the group...

I like the ideas. However, you would probably see a lot of the underperforming dps just joining the hard dungeons, and a lot of the DF runs becoming failures, thus negating the bonus. I think until your inital problem is at least partially solved, the community can't handle these types of ideas. The only way to do your idea reasonably would be to have a dps check before entering the dungeon, or use PF. Funny thought, would DPS then become the adventurer in need for that dungeon...

As far as bonus Tomes, I've had a few thoughts on that lately, as far as the AIN bonus applies that is. On how to make it relevant. And one thing I kept coming up with is that if the bonus is too much, AINs cap out too quick, in effect making the problem worse the closer to reset. So the next thought I had was, instead of making the bonus bigger, you just make it so the bonus counts above the cap. Hell, with that you could even make the bonus smaller, and it would probably work better. You probably could even do no bonus, and just have a cap extention added.

[Welsper59]

Still this would get nerfed. People would cry that the bar was set unreasonably high. It's not until people are faced with what their actual numbers are, and that their bar is unreasonably low that you would see a change.

Edit: Not that I wouldn't enjoy this mechanic and others like it. I just think it may be a waste if it will just get nerfed with the way the community is now. I think adding it after a parser is the way to go.

Unlike the original person you quoted though, I'm not for creating walls to prevent people from progressing. I'm hugely in favor of creating challanging content that pushes players to get better though, so that the game itself can progress and get more challanging.

While it'd be nice if that were the case, I sincerely believe you (and others) actually think your peers have a reasonable sense of accountability and responsibility at all times (or at least the times you'd want them to). Them coming face to face with their numbers does next to nothing for the people you find problematic. It's just how they are. The folks that want to improve already would without it being that way sooner than later.

I'd personally prefer they just introduce a difficult tier of content that does force such mechanics upon EVERYONE. DPS needing to kill mobs before they die, tanks need to survive until help comes (this means kiting if need and using proper cooldowns for tank killer mechanics), healers need to heal themselves (or NPC targets) and learn to use their CC/snare abilities until help comes. Basically, some 4-man instances that is aimed for pre-made groups initially that breaks off into a very short solo mechanic. Let the bads be bad, there's no stopping that. Just introduce higher end content that appeases those who want content to force people to be better in situations otherwise seen as faceroll (like 4-man). Force this accountability upon them if they want to complete it.