PLD cant even hold the aggro for Alexander savage ...

[Ashkendor]

umm forget PLDs holding agro even if they can cause atm they have to be carried cause dps of the 3 tanks is lowest and PLD's survivability is no better than DRK and WAR unless you want to try to prove a same I-level WAR or DRK cant out dps a PLD and that's impossible unless the WAR/DRK is either bribed in test or just suck and or feeling sorry and low parsing dps deliberately to pretend the gap isn't so much to keep WAR and DRK safe while SE thinks PLD balanced and thus WAR/DRK preferred always cause most end game raiders know PLD has major DPS issues and doesn't bring any more defense worth even mentioning that is unless your a WAR/DRK lover trying to hide the truth that PLD's have no superior defensive capability's so WAR/DRK maintain tank slot 1 and 2 cause who needs 3 tanks right?

So suddenly lower DPS = getting carried? I guess bards, machinists, ninjas, and astrologians get carried too then. Yes, my DPS is lower than it would be as a DRK or WAR, but as long as I'm doing everything I can to help clear the raid I am not getting carried. -.-

I'm not disputing that the class needs some tweaking atm, but I'm getting really tired of hearing that I'm getting carried.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

So suddenly lower DPS = getting carried? I guess bards, machinists, ninjas, and astrologians get carried too then. Yes, my DPS is lower than it would be as a DRK or WAR, but as long as I'm doing everything I can to help clear the raid I am not getting carried. -.-

I'm not disputing that the class needs some tweaking atm, but I'm getting really tired of hearing that I'm getting carried.

See the problem with equating PLD with BRD, MCH, and NIN is that the aforementioned classes actually bring utility to the table. PLD does not. It offers absolutely nothing to the raid while simultaneously offering the lowest DPS. So basically they are being carried.

[NFaelivrin]

PLD can hold aggro fine... by spamming an incredibly weak combo and thus further lowering their already low DPS.

[Isius]

PLD can hold aggro fine... by spamming an incredibly weak combo and thus further lowering their already low DPS.

I would say Paladin can hold aggro, but it's not fine. I already made a list of stuff that helps kill Paladin's dps potential in a previous post on this thread, but yeah Rage of Halone being low dps/low aggro generation is a contributing factor to it.

[Martin_Arcainess]

So since a WHM/SCH/AST has low DPS then a DRK is getting carried? It's a PLD job to Tank not DPS it's not his main role to bring the DPS that is why he is a tank!

It's not a any Tank's job to ensure the DPS check are made, or if the fight is done sooner that is the job of the DPS.

Any tank that holds Aggro on the boss and upkeeps its own survivability is doing it's job right regardless of the DPS that tank is doing. If you fail at a DPS checks then it's your DPS fault not the tanks or healers. Any DPS from them is considered a bonus.

[Brannigan]

So since a WHM/SCH/AST has low DPS then a DRK is getting carried? It's a PLD job to Tank not DPS it's not his main role to bring the DPS that is why he is a tank!

It's not a any Tank's job to ensure the DPS check are made, or if the fight is done sooner that is the job of the DPS.

Any tank that holds Aggro on the boss and upkeeps its own survivability is doing it's job right regardless of the DPS that tank is doing. If you fail at a DPS checks then it's your DPS fault not the tanks or healers. Any DPS from them is considered a bonus.

This does not hold true in Alexander Savage (or any hard encounter with DPS checks, really.) Tank DPS is important.

[CGMidlander]

So since a WHM/SCH/AST has low DPS then a DRK is getting carried? It's a PLD job to Tank not DPS it's not his main role to bring the DPS that is why he is a tank!

It's not a any Tank's job to ensure the DPS check are made, or if the fight is done sooner that is the job of the DPS.

Any tank that holds Aggro on the boss and upkeeps its own survivability is doing it's job right regardless of the DPS that tank is doing. If you fail at a DPS checks then it's your DPS fault not the tanks or healers. Any DPS from them is considered a bonus.

You're wrong.

[Isius]

Hmmm...just want to say cheer up guys. Maybe SE will do great things to Pld in 3.1, and we can all be a big, happy, tank family.

^w^)/ -crosses fingers-

[Cheraa]

I'm fine with beeing the defensive Tank and doing less DPS than a Warrior or DRK but than, please give us helpful tools for our party.

- Clemency: Lower casttime to 0.5 seconds (the high Manacosts will prevent us from spamming it anyway)
- Divine Veil: Remove the healing condition to activate the barrier and lower CD to 90 seconds.
- Shield swipe: Replace Pacification with a 10% DMG reduce of the Mobs magical attacks.

Well lets see, what will be done about the Paladin in the coming patch.

[Martin_Arcainess]

This does not hold true in Alexander Savage (or any hard encounter with DPS checks, really.) Tank DPS is important.

Well of course Tanks DPS is taken into consideration of course but the vibe seems to be here that PLD's are getting carried due to having low DPS. Props didn't come across clear with what I was trying to say. But the thing if you have a PLD that is DPSing as much as he possible can in any content they I don't consider that a carry.

What I consider a carry is someone who can't do there job and dies due to their poor play style. So if a WAR/DRK die at the beginning of the encounter they got carried but if the PLD stayed alive, tanked the boss well regardless of his DPS output he did his job and did not get get carried.

You're wrong.

Oh yes your words of wonder inspire us all. Very well thought out indeed.