PLD cant even hold the aggro for Alexander savage ...

[MeeYow]

78% is fine by me, still twice the reported gap from a dummy.

You don't compare just DPS, you compare DPs while tanking, or as you said, raid DPS, as a side note it is pretty common for people consider the 10% DPS gained from a slashing debuff to belong to the class which applies the debuff, like with DRG and BRD. After all, it isn't there without the class applying it.

Let's not forget, BRD and BLM used to parse about the same on a dummy in 2.0, BRD got a nerf.

It varies by raid but we have data for everything, and not in small quantities.

As for being able to say anything with the numbers, you can't put PLD on par regardless of which set you look at. As for the real value, that's he point, and it will always be better gaining insight from real data than going by dummy parses and not even trying to get something real.

@Spooky - I take the difference being far larger in 3 raids to 1 as reasonably conclusive, if you want to argue that 1 to 3 is a stronger case be my guest. While we are looking at other floors, I'd like to point out the dummy not being able to even begin to do A2S.

@Velox - Source?

[SpookyGhost]

@Velox - Source?

Not "massive buffs" but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Stance-on-Pld

So changes are happening, we just don't know any specifics.

[MeeYow]

Thanks I was aware of that one but was hoping Velox had seen something new and recent, exagaration and disappointment :/

Edit: WAR would probably be fine in a fixed rotation, it still has oGCD dancing and preserves stacks, the other two do not have oGCD and have to pay costs to swap. The only time WAR would be unable to dance is if the busters were less than 20s (2x defiance timer) apart and in that case PLD would full time tank stance because the 2 GCD loss every 8 would make stance dancing less DPS ban staying in shield, in shield PLDs DPS is MUCH worse than Defiance WAR and PLD would run out of garunteed cooldowns very fast because it's recasts are so long. In fact WAR would do best because it is the one with inner beast every ~17s

As for healer DPS, half of PLDs problem comes from the fact that even in DPS stances the gap between it and WAR in mitigation isn't really that big. Its cooldowns are longer and durations often shorter, maybe shelltron could do a little bit but a buster hit would still require the top up before and after. Also mentioning Halone, I am pretty sure most PLDs are pretty envious of storms path.

I'm also pretty sure the PLD for A2S thing died out a while ago, last I have read is BG tank forums talking about how WAR DRK or WAR WAR makes a mockery of anything with PLD and is no less safe. At least there PLD being better than DRK or WAR is treated as a misconception.

[Tadus]

PLDs that cant hold agro need to git gud

[Kuwagami]

snip

The point was that numbers are just numbers, and their interpretation is a long, hard and tricky work. Each job has strong and weak points, and personal dps isn't the only thing to look for (see : AS2 for PLDs). And if we are to look for raid dps, you have to take into account the dps the healers gain by having a PLD because there are more CDs to defend oneself, constant potency decrease on every physical attack, etc... (even if that's in a perfect 0% overhealing scenario).

If tomorrow a fight requiring strict CD rotation to even barely survive normal hits comes, WARs will be screwed and forced to stay in safe mode most of the time, relying on unchained, while PLDs will have way more room to dps.

It's not that weak, yeah it might need a slight buff to be better for those PLD's who go dungeoning with DPS with like higher iLV than the PLD but it's doing fine if ye close in terms of iLV.

I don't have any trouble keeping Aggro at all with flash but the potency of Flash I like to know.

Flash is 500 potency