Proposal: HQ mat-to-HQ mat conversion of 100%

[Rentahamster]

"full" +3 gear? All you need is a +3 tool. HQ clothes don't give you any extra crafting bonuses. HQ on armor and clothing only increases defense, evade, and magical defense, which are useless to a crafter (Fix this too SE).

[origamikitsune]

So what does +Magic Crafting do? And are we certain that there aren't hidden bonuses to these stats in +X gear? I for one have not seen any tests one way or the other to check this out, hence the idea of testing it. If you can point me to some data on it, by all means please share! I would love to be shown to be wrong in this. Otherwise, no harm in testing.

[Rentahamster]

So what does +Magic Crafting do? And are we certain that there aren't hidden bonuses to these stats in +X gear? I for one have not seen any tests one way or the other to check this out, hence the idea of testing it. If you can point me to some data on it, by all means please share! I would love to be shown to be wrong in this. Otherwise, no harm in testing.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f271d7a0a84d5f

Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned. All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.

I doubt there are any hidden stats on gear that affect crafting, since even YG doesn't have that listed on their "hidden stats" portion of item properties.

[origamikitsune]

Okay, so that was rhetorical, and I feel silly for asking about the hidden stats since as far as I understand it YG farms the dat files. Its late. <.< I'll blame it on that! Thanks for pointing me to the explanation though; I had somehow totally overlooked the effects of the various elements destabilizing.

[Reika]

Not necessarily. You just need to adjust your crafting method depending on what you're synthing.

When dealing with finished items, it's generally a better idea to get as much quality as you can while preserving durability for the "Touch Up" process.

When creating mats or parts, it's generally a better idea to go for as much quality as you can, durability be damned, which is where skills like Clean Slate come in handy.

I still think it would be nice for materials to have a touch up option. I have gotten to 300+ quality on a finished item and used touch up until it broke with not even a +1. the chances are too low even at that high quality, so it would be better if we could at least more easily create HQ materials

[CanteJondo]

I think parts should have a touch up option. Things like sleeves, robe fronts, shirt fronts etc.
I agree that +3 mats should give a far better chance at HQing than NQ mats

[Peregrine]

I'd be okay with touchups, but i'd rather have the HQ rates increased up-front on materials due to time issues. It's a lump of metal in the end. Touching it up's not functionally going to alter its properties, whereas touching up a final piece makes more sense.

As far as the iron file+3 goes...I have a +1. I will make myself a +3 just because i make *so* many freaking mats with the offhand for me and the shell and I'm bored. But I'm not buying that it will make a bit of difference. We're talking about a difference in craft, mcraft, and control of:

Polished iron file+1:
Craft: 52
Mcraft: 67
Control: 59

Polished iron file+3:
Craft: 57
Mcraft: 73
Control: 65

You're talking about 5 craftsmanship. 6 mcraft. 6 control. That's almost nothing compared to my baseline in all honestly from mcraft, craft, and balanced sets. I'm afraid that any difference you see in HQ rates of Polished iron file and +3 iron file is placebo effect. There's just not enough power in those stats to amount to a hill of beans unless the HQ tool has a hidden HQ-chance-altering effect OUTSIDE the stat boosts. Which I'm almost sure I don't.

In my mind, quality is the only determinant of HQ rate. I'm guessing the outcome quality of an polished iron file versus polished iron file +3 is less than 20 quality points per synth. That's not gonna cut it. That's not going to give you a detectable difference in HQ rate. Humans are not capable of detecting differences of less than about 20%.

They are, however, exquisitely good at believing a difference exists when there is none.

[Rentahamster]

Every little bit helps.

HQ mats + rank 50 + high level skills + +3tool + dodore and other best crafing gear + food combined is going to give you better chances than just HQ mats and rank 50 alone. If you're trying to optimize your results you gotta maximize your chances as much as you can.

[Peregrine]

"Every little bit helps" is like saying "everything happens for a reason."
Does it really, or does it just feel better saying it?

Every little bit doesn't help. That's the problem. I bet if I took off my dodore doublet and wore the velveteen vest again, and if I threw my +1's out and wore NQs, AND if I dropped all of my crafting abilitites AND took my MND and INT down to 50...there'd be no difference in HQ oucomes. Why? Because there'd be next to no difference in quality and given how many setups I've had and worked with, I realize that.

I would actually run that test if it wasn't likely that the design will change.

People think this is a system where every little bit helps and they'll be rewarded for getting all these abilities and traits and stat converts and HQ this and that...and it's just not the case. 90% of the quality, and thus 90% of the chance of HQ, is predetermined by three things. Starting quality, your level, and the dominatingly low chance of non-NQ results. What's the difference between a 1% chance and a 2% chance of getting a +3? Twice the chance, zomg? No, there is no difference. They're both abysmal. It's the difference between absolute and relative differences. 20% more means nothing if it doesn't DO anything.

In fact, many of the abilities meant to raise quality can often decrease it. Inspiration: increased chance of quality but reduces success rate. Really now...and what happens if you fail where you would have otherwise succeeded? You lose your chain. You lose progress. You lose durability. You lose quality. Increased chance of instability, so you could lose a heck of a lot of things. Inspiration is designed to do nothing, while making you squeal and clap and remember the time that you gained 61 quality points on that success. The biggest farce MMO developers ever pulled is to throw players meaningless numbers and convince them they mean something as incentive to level more and play more and stay longer. 2 is more than 1, they whisper. It all adds up, they say. And people repeat that over and over. They believe it makes them better, and with all the flaws the human brain has at really judging these things, they insist it makes them better.

Unfortunately both the 2 and the 1 mean nothing, and affect no real outcome. What is 4 more craftsmanship? 10 more? What is 20 more quality?

Nothing, in reality. Who here is pumping things to 700 quality? No one.

[origamikitsune]

I'd like to run that test just to show that it doesn't help. Then we could get everyone on the same page, and hopefully get more communication going in the direction of suggested fixes.