Proposal: HQ mat-to-HQ mat conversion of 100%

[Peregrine]

^ The heart of the problem, IMO.

Yup. Here's another one.

Solace Ist:
50 Carp
50 alch
Botany Rank...21

Of course you're going to argue that crafter HQ rates should be more dependent on their pokemon skills they've collected and not the materials. You're more biased than I am. Again, too many first generation crafters are exactly like this. You levelled carpentry and alchemy without botany. You kidding me? And you expect to be competitive because of your offhand stat and Hand of the Gods?

In my opinion a R30 with better botany skills than you have deserves to go neck and neck with you in HQ3 synthesis. And a R50 alch and carp with a R40+ botanist deserves to put you out of the HQ making scene entirely.

Level your bot if you want to be a good carpenter. 610 quality that you don't have access to consistently should be rewarded.

[Rentahamster]

This is probably the major thing that needs to be addressed

Not necessarily. You just need to adjust your crafting method depending on what you're synthing.

When dealing with finished items, it's generally a better idea to get as much quality as you can while preserving durability for the "Touch Up" process.

When creating mats or parts, it's generally a better idea to go for as much quality as you can, durability be damned, which is where skills like Clean Slate come in handy.

[origamikitsune]

Not necessarily. You just need to adjust your crafting method depending on what you're synthing.

When dealing with finished items, it's generally a better idea to get as much quality as you can while preserving durability for the "Touch Up" process.

When creating mats or parts, it's generally a better idea to go for as much quality as you can, durability be damned, which is where skills like Clean Slate come in handy.

Indeed and agreed. And this process makes sense to me, providing a little depth to the system without it being too complex (in my opinion). Still think it needs to be tweaked though!

[Peregrine]

Not necessarily. You just need to adjust your crafting method depending on what you're synthing.

When dealing with finished items, it's generally a better idea to get as much quality as you can while preserving durability for the "Touch Up" process.

When creating mats or parts, it's generally a better idea to go for as much quality as you can, durability be damned, which is where skills like Clean Slate come in handy.

Everyone already does that, and your abilities aren't as useful as you think they are in accomplishing your goal.

I'm a GS and BS. I will challenge any user on any synthesis to beat my HQ results with your abilities that I don't have on either of those two arenas. You will see how little Clean Slate actually does in OUTCOME based measures.

The cake is a lie. Those abilities are more about making you feel like you're good than making you good. Sadly, their effect on outcomes...on HQ rates themselves, not on how you feel or what you think...is almost nothing!

[Peregrine]

That being said, I've been looking for abilities to slow the progress bar down. Will probably get that one next.

[Rentahamster]

That being said, I've been looking for abilities to slow the progress bar down. Will probably get that one next.

Well, you can't really say that it has no effect on your outcomes if you don't even have it, can you? I mean, it's not like abilities like Clean Slate and Hand of the Gods are automatic HQ abilities, but they do help. The high level crafters I know who have gotten those abilites aren't churning out HQs, but they all consider it good skills that helps their chances.

Anyway, getting back to you original point, I very much agree that the difficulty in synthing stuff like +3 ingots and plates is stupid hard right now. Something needs to be done, and I like the general thrust of your ideas, but I have a feeling they might be a little too generous.

[origamikitsune]

Cross post! There is another thread I would like to point you guys to that I started specifically because of the conversation going on in this thread. A lot of us are talking about adjusting the HQ rates, but are we even on the same page as to how much? Check it out, post your opinion, maybe we can see where we all stand in terms of what we hope to see?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...r-quot-HQ-Rate

[Peregrine]

Well, you can't really say that it has no effect on your outcomes if you don't even have it, can you? I mean, it's not like abilities like Clean Slate and Hand of the Gods are automatic HQ abilities, but they do help. The high level crafters I know who have gotten those abilites aren't churning out HQs, but they all consider it good skills that helps their chances..

And you can no more say that they do without comparisons. Working in this context only has value in difference in outcomes. What HQs are they churning out, and what quality? Glue+3s? Ingots? Nuggets? Or are they Iron spathas? Toothed Falchions? Results vary dramatically. I'm churning out only one kind of HQ in my head and the other rates are terrible given my starting position:+1 versions of R47-50 tools and weapons. I'm good at that. If you want a +1 of an "endgame" weapon or tool that a BS or GS can make, I can probably get it made in less than 40 minutes. This is NOT because of how great a smith I am and my epic abilities. This is because I have a reserve of +1 and 2 mats and they contain easy opportunity to pump quality to 150-200 and thus have like a 35% chance at HQ1.

I can make nugget+3's *okay* I can by no means churn them out, not even brass nuggets. But double synth +3s...no one is churning those out. I'd like to see the data of what they consider churning them out to mean.

[Rentahamster]

And you can no more say that they do without comparisons. Working in this context only has value in difference in outcomes. What HQs are they churning out, and what quality?

Well, they say it helps, and they're pretty good at what they do, so who am I to argue?

The biggest help in HQing mats for our BSM came not with new abilities, but with new tools. After he made himself a new Polished Iron File +3, he was able to HQ nuggets noticeably more frequently.

[origamikitsune]

You know, that brings up a good point. I would love to see data from a rank 50, using a NQ and +3 tool, performing say, 200 (100 of each) rank 25ish synths, just pressing Bold Synth without regard of abilities, etc. I'm curious how much just upgrading your gear affects it. If there is a "noticeable" difference, I would love to see data on full +3 gear v. full NQ gear. I've gotten to the point where I am curious enough that I would do it myself - but I would need a +3 tool.

In a week or two, I will give it a shot. Its easy enough to do it with fish -> shards if I can find the +3 alembic. I might even be able to swing a set of +2 or +3 crafting gear (not at rank, but that should be okay just to get some idea in a relative test).