Bard - they broke my job

[KrietorSenpai]

im not even sure why are bards complaining... we are in a good spot atm, not perfect though.
In terms of movement we can stutter step really well, better then a BLM but worse the a MCH or a SMN
Minuet scalability with gear is insanely good, and having Bloodletter/RoD as oGCD insta cast while minuet is godsend.
We should be focusing on the QoL changes, to make the class more desirable.
I wish for some of the following changes:
*Straigther shot proc fix.
*1.5sec cast time for all songs. (MCH can ogcd theirs...)
*Remove wardens paeon or rework it totally to a foes for melee.
*Give us more movement options like MCH have with qReload and Reload, instead of praying to RNGesus for a straighter shot proc.
*Let Barrage Crit

In terms of rotation the only things that feels out of place & clunky is hard cast empy on a normal oGCD which eats a few milliseconds of the next GCD.

[SlyRoyale]

Straigther shot proc fix.

SE could change it so the proc appears instantly after a Heavy Shot cast much like how Sharper Fang & Claw and Enhanced Wheeling Thrust proc.

1.5sec cast time for all songs.

To go further, songs could also be taken off the GCD and be given a 10s recast and have their cast time shortened to 1s like where Swiftsong is. That may be a bit much, but I'd say it's worth sitting on.

Remove wardens paeon or rework it totally to a foes for melee.

A physical version of Foe Requiem would be nice, but I think SE wants to marry Paean to the idea of it being a support spell. If that's the case, SE should take it off the GCD (keep it as a spell like Empyreal Arrow is an oGCD weaponskill instead of an ability), give it a 40s, 60s, or 120s recast, and have it prevent any ailments (that can be cleansed) during the 30s it is up on the designated party member.

Give us more movement options like MCH have with qReload and Reload, instead of praying to RNGesus for a straighter shot proc.

Boosting Heavier Shot's chance of proccing Straighter Shot to 25% would be a baby step in the right direction. Another step SE could take is to add a passive trait to Straight Shot when Minuet is active. This trait could be a "Swift Shot" proc, adding a 50% chance of the next Heavy Shot being an instant cast--100% chance if Straighter Shot is used.

Let Barrage Crit

THIS. It would help to make up for what Barrage used to be.

In terms of rotation the only things that feels out of place & clunky is hard cast empy on a normal oGCD which eats a few milliseconds of the next GCD.

That's really the only thing that makes the job feel clunky. This could be fixed by making the cast time instant, or at the very least reduce it to 1s before skill speed scaling.

[RiceisNice]

To go further, songs could also be taken off the GCD and be given a 10s recast and have their cast time shortened to 1s like where Swiftsong is. That may be a bit much, but I'd say it's worth sitting on.

There's absolutely no reason that you can't turn off the song if you have GCD on cooldown, they should at least fix that. Especially with how it still clips into your next cast time when you do try to turn it off. Aside from that, I'd rather them not homogenize the two classes even more if they can help it (and we need to weave in two different oGCDs to promote into a mana turret on an average basis, tyvm.)

A physical version of Foe Requiem would be nice, but I think SE wants to marry Paean to the idea of it being a support spell. If that's the case, SE should take it off the GCD (keep it as a spell like Empyreal Arrow is an oGCD weaponskill instead of an ability), give it a 40s, 60s, or 120s recast, and have it prevent any ailments (that can be cleansed) during the 30s it is up on the designated party member.

You'd have to be careful of giving BRD a physical damage boost, because at that point you're throwing out MCH's only meaningful perk over BRD (the fact that they have a damage increase toward physical dps which barely breaks even against foe)

Boosting Heavier Shot's chance of proccing Straighter Shot to 25% would be a baby step in the right direction. Another step SE could take is to add a passive trait to Straight Shot when Minuet is active. This trait could be a "Swift Shot" proc, adding a 50% chance of the next Heavy Shot being an instant cast--100% chance if Straighter Shot is used.

While I'm for all making BRD more motile, I'm not in for making both jobs motile. It'd homogenize their playstyle even moreso if they don't give MCH their own changes. I'm honestly fine with one job being motile and the other being non/semi motile, as long as the job functions as whole (which is more than what I can say for BRD atm). BLM and SMN can handle the diversity just fine by design and they're still competing with each other for raid slots (if not interchangable, since they share caster gear that some players actually play both)

THIS. It would help to make up for what Barrage used to be.

While keeping everything in perspective, BRD doesn't need any more damage in comparison to MCH. From what I've seen, the two are pretty neck-to-neck as of right now, not factoring that their numbers can be boosted from debuffs (specifically, MCH's own physical debuff boosting themselves). Not to mention the only other skill that has a similar functionality is duality, which also does not allow for duplicated crits.

[SlyRoyale]

There's absolutely no reason that you can't turn off the song if you have GCD on cooldown, they should at least fix that. Especially with how it still clips into your next cast time when you do try to turn it off. Aside from that, I'd rather them not homogenize the two classes even more if they can help it (and we need to weave in two different oGCDs to promote into a mana turret on an average basis, tyvm.)

Like MNK's "Fist of Wind/Earth/Fire" abilities? They are on their own shared cooldown of 3s, so that would be a step in the right direction. Thing is, SE seems dead-set on having parity between BRD and MCH.

You'd have to be careful of giving BRD a physical damage boost, because at that point you're throwing out MCH's only meaningful perk over BRD (the fact that they have a damage increase toward physical dps which barely breaks even against foe)

While a physical defence reduction song may potentially be overkill, Foe Requiem is stronger than MCH's version of magic defence reduction. Should SE change Paean's effect to what Krietor suggested, MCH's turrets would have to be adjusted so the vulnerability they apply to the targets in range is greater than it is now. Although, I feel that SE wants to keep Paean's current niche novelty, but they should at least make it more convenient. Take away its cast time, make it an oGCD spell with a 90s recast, and have it persist for its full 30s duration even after it negates a cleanse-able ailment.

While I'm for all making BRD more motile, I'm not in for making both jobs motile. It'd homogenize their playstyle even moreso if they don't give MCH their own changes. I'm honestly fine with one job being motile and the other being non/semi motile, as long as the job functions as whole (which is more than what I can say for BRD atm). BLM and SMN can handle the diversity just fine by design and they're still competing with each other for raid slots (if not interchangable, since they share caster gear that some players actually play both)

Thing is, BRD and MCH are very much alike in a lot of respects. It's just that one job benefits more from double-oGCD weaving due to a certain trait it has, while the other can move more freely due to cast times being designed around the job instead of being slapped on like an afterthought. BRD could use a bit of leniency in that area, but mostly around animation locking and Straighter Shot procs. If any differences could be made, BRD could have higher base damage but focus more on group sustainability while MCH has slightly lower base damage but more emphasis on inflicting debuffs.

While keeping everything in perspective, BRD doesn't need any more damage in comparison to MCH. From what I've seen, the two are pretty neck-to-neck as of right now, not factoring that their numbers can be boosted from debuffs (specifically, MCH's own physical debuff boosting themselves). Not to mention the only other skill that has a similar functionality is duality, which also does not allow for duplicated crits.

The main reason why I support allowing abilities like Barrage to have the chances of one-to-all of its hits being able to crit is that it would have the potential to make up for what was a nerf from what the ability originally did. Granted, MCH would also have to be adjusted as an answer to it, but that would require some balancing issues to take into consideration.

Ultimately, I think we can all agree that Straighter Shot needs to be fixed and the Warden's Paean needs to be less niche. Those two changes alone would be a step in the right direction.

[RiceisNice]

Like MNK's "Fist of Wind/Earth/Fire" abilities? They are on their own shared cooldown of 3s, so that would be a step in the right direction. Thing is, SE seems dead-set on having parity between BRD and MCH.

It's well within their design to make an oGCD have a cast time. The problem is that because it's currently on the GCD, disabling it is also on the GCD as well (which means you can't acutally "weave" disabling a song) considering the potential uptime and the potential potency of the regens, the cast time for the song itself is fine as it is, just not disabling the song or using it.

Thing is, BRD and MCH are very much alike in a lot of respects. It's just that one job benefits more from double-oGCD weaving due to a certain trait it has, while the other can move more freely due to cast times being designed around the job instead of being slapped on like an afterthought. BRD could use a bit of leniency in that area, but mostly around animation locking and Straighter Shot procs. If any differences could be made, BRD could have higher base damage but focus more on group sustainability while MCH has slightly lower base damage but more emphasis on inflicting debuffs.

Which is part of the problem. We don't want two jobs to play on entirely the same concept, which is almost the case right now. All the two does is keep their debuffs refreshed, keep their own buffs up, be re-active to their procs (which BRD can't do effectively). The only difference I can honestly bring up is the fact that MCH can move better than BRD (which honestly, should not be the only differentiation to the two jobs) and giving straighter shot an increased proc to mirror that would throw it outside the window. They have their own different burst execution, but that only comes up so often in a given fight, that everything else after that have the two executing the same flow of using a filler, watching for procs, using the procs, and using oGCDs when it comes off. There's no management of resources (mana cycling for blm) or limited/building up buffs (like aetherflow or wrath) The ammo system is incredibly straightforward and at best an afterthought since you're encouraged to use quick reload as it comes off cooldown, and ammo itself only has an "additional effect" to two abilities in your entire toolkit, the rest being a flat +20 potency boost. The turret ultimately means very little since it's mostly place and forget, it's not that expansive to how MCH plays as a job compared to BRD (which is different from playing the job effectively).

The main reason why I support allowing abilities like Barrage to have the chances of one-to-all of its hits being able to crit is that it would have the potential to make up for what was a nerf from what the ability originally did. Granted, MCH would also have to be adjusted as an answer to it, but that would require some balancing issues to take into consideration.

This is what I need to address. As of right now, do you need barrage to be buffed to the way it was? Before, it was brought up to make a point that BRDs had actually lost damage going into 3.0 because of both changes to 2.0 traits and new abilities that were questionable (WM). You don't need to change old skills back to the way it was as long as it still balances the effectiveness/performance in the long run (which seems to be the case, more or less assuming that everything else works out)

Totally correct besides the last part, there is an *exception* to EA + Straighter shot, however this is from an unfortunate person who currently sits at around 740-800 skillspeed depending on encounters, for example in A1S my 800 skillspeed set is easily better stats and I don't need TP

The thing is though, if you're "lucky" you'll get an SS proc every time EA comes up. If SS lines up with EA, you're using 130 TP in a single GCD, so while the lack of GCD clipping on EA looks tasty it can burn the hell out of your TP. I tend to avoid doing it too often if I'm getting lucky with SS procs, and I choose to hold EA for my next GCD to both save TP, and "check" for another SS proc since you can do SS -> HS (EA) -> SS if it procs.

It's really just another one of those bard things where it changes depending on the situation, though.

Hitting SS with the proc (but not using the proc) actually delays your oGCD cast, including Empyreal Arrow. Which honestly makes absolutely no sense from a game-design perspective that this is going into bug/glitch territory. Otherwise you're normally supposed to be able to use an oGCD right after the cast finishes.

[aabe]

.

I think you understood my post incorrectly because what I was talking about has nothing to do with SS procs being buggy, however I've been aware of that bug for quite a while. I've actually come to learn to react to the SS proc and just put off reapplying SS for that reason.

Like, for example, in your rotation, this happens:

HS, HS (ss procs), Iron Jaws, Use SS proc, Empyreal arrow just came off CD so use that during the 2.5 GCD of Straighter

I'm pretty sure most people see that happen and say "oh, it's my lucky day EA didn't clip my GCD at all! big deeps!" but it can happen to the point that it melts your TP bar away. I was just sayin it's not something you wanna do every time it occurs.

[RiceisNice]

,,,

Except in that scenario, you'd also want to make sure you want SS active before you reapply iron jaws. I'm talking about a perspective where the proc occurs around the time you need to refresh SS above all else, and the proc just happens to be there and delays your next oGCD.

HS, HS (ss procs), Use SS (proc not used) proc, Iron Jaws, Empyreal arrow

You'd have to clip into your next weaponskill either way by using empyreal arrow first, or delaying your empyreal arrow after SS . And even then, this isn't something that theoretically drains your TP bar *faster* because you aren't using empyreal arrow that much more frequently until you get into the really long fights or have incredibly high SS in your case (Which is not exclusive to empyreal arrow draining your TP, but having high skill speed speed up your GCDs that causes the faster depletion of TP)