Crafting a Dead Horse: Work vs. Reward Seriously Needs a Revamp

[Caimie_Tsukino]

They're probably waiting for more people to reach the end game before they stabilize the economy with a better designed crafting and gathering system. Hopefully it will not be too litle too late.

Yea, I hope they fix it in time too! Time is running out for them...

[Kiara]

I think many of us have posted similar feelings in the past. I do hope the Dev Team hears us and reacts to it.

I posted a question on this topic in the Ask a Question Thread for the upcoming Producer Live Letter. Hit "Like" button (or post your own question) and hopefully we'll get an answer from the Dev Team soon:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3362147

[kog985]

I think many of us have posted similar feelings in the past. I do hope the Dev Team hears us and reacts to it.

I posted a question on this topic in the Ask a Question Thread for the upcoming Producer Live Letter. Hit "Like" button (or post your own question) and hopefully we'll get an answer from the Dev Team soon:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3362147

And I hope they will "answer" it instead of "avoiding" it this time. (and like many times before)

We will know that when the LIVE LETTER on.

[Viviza]

The masses shouldn't be punished because the very few break the rules. Plus, plenty of DoW/DoM bot fates and such, should fates be removed and exp slowed to punish the masses leveling those classes because a couple people bot? If not then why should crafters and gatherers receive the same treatment?

I don't even understand this comparison. Crafters and gatherers can bot their levels just fine. I know people who have done or do so.

The difference is that, as a raider, I can largely ignore it because it doesn't impede me. I was given ample time to level a job before raiding started. I followed the gating mechanics and started on roughly the same footing as my peers. I'm not expected to compete with the people who bot or purchase RMT as a vector to collecting gear. If I did, I would be faced with a dilemma of having to cheat in order to keep pace. Sad to say, but the top level crafters I'm familiar with bot shamelessly and aggressively. It's not "the very few", it's "many and often". They control the market and I don't want to support them.

The notion of a punishment is also somewhat nonsensical given end-game gear was never something the developers intended to give. You can't punish someone by not giving them things that were never to be given.

I do think that crafters deserve better, mind you. The honest ones put in a lot of effort for meager returns. But the system as it stands will screw someone regardless, because the market is too vulnerable to exploitation.

[Thrustie]

Saying it wasn't intended is a big stretch. They introduced competitive crafted gear patch after patch for 2 years. If it wasn't deliberate, it demonstrated a massive lack of foresight and a total absence of hindsight. Obviously they decided before 3.0 came along that they didn't like the consequences but they certainly knew what they were doing before that.

Your average raider had maybe 1 crafted piece, or none at all, to cover up for a piece with crappy itemization. The fraction of raiders who were actually using multiple crafted pieces for faster progression was incredibly tiny.

[CatfishCassie]

I don't know that they've ever released competitive crafted gear. Crafted gear has always been, at a minimum, 20 item levels behind the top tier. This is the first time that it's 30-60 item levels behind, mind you, but 20 behind is still pretty bad. More specifically, crafted gear has always been equal to the uncapped-tomestone gear (in this case, Law) and it still is except for Goldsmithing which kinda gets the shaft. The problem is, that's not competitive. Having your top end, break-my-back-working-day-and-night-to make-after-spending-3-months-getting-the-necessary-skills gear be the same as the oops-I-accidentally-queued-for-a-roulette-guess-I'll-buy-some-armor gear is a gross imbalance in effort vs. reward. Currently the only gear even remotely desirable is the way-under-levelled goldsmithing jewelry, and only for tanks, and only because tank itemization sucks since tanks desire both strength and vitality.

[StouterTaru]

I don't know that they've ever released competitive crafted gear. Crafted gear has always been, at a minimum, 20 item levels behind the top tier.

Yes, but that stuff 20 levels up was gated with weekly lockouts/RNG. Many times materia could make up the damage difference of those 20 levels as well. So 3 months after patch it was often not BiS (although in a few cases it was), but on day one of a new raid patch it was the BiS available.

[Ibi]

Yes, but that stuff 20 levels up was gated with weekly lockouts/RNG. Many times materia could make up the damage difference of those 20 levels as well. So 3 months after patch it was often not BiS (although in a few cases it was), but on day one of a new raid patch it was the BiS available.

This is the answer.

At 2.4 launch, for example, a tank who'd been downing SCoB for a while would be wearing either a Heavy High Allagan Coat or a Noct Lorica:

Heavy High Allagan Coat: 162 Def, 46 VIT, 39 STR, 41 Parry, 29 Critical Rate
Noct Lorica: 162 Def, 46 VIT, 39 STR, 41 Parry, 29 Accuracy

The crafted equivalent added with 2.4 (which could theoretically be obtained on the day of the patch) was the Wootz Cuirass:

HQ Wootz Cuirass: 162 Def, 46 VIT, 39 STR, 41 Accuracy, 29 Critical Rate, 2 Materia slots

The materia slots (which, thanks to forbidden melding, are actually five, rather than two) could be used to add some combination of Critical Rate, Determination, and Skill Speed, making it clearly superior to either of the chest pieces a tank would already be wearing.

Though i130 body pieces were available, they required either beating T13 (for the Dreadwyrm Armor of Fending) or almost two weeks worth of Tomestones of Poetics (but since most raiders worked on getting their weapon first, they'd likely not have the body until the fifth week at the earliest), so the crafted i110 was very much the best option in most cases.

[Alahra]

I don't know that they've ever released competitive crafted gear. Crafted gear has always been, at a minimum, 20 item levels behind the top tier.

Crafted i110, in a handful of slots, actually best-in-slot for some classes in 2.4/2.5 because of relatively poor itemization of the i130 gear. For NINs, belt, feet, and rings were i110 for best in slot, and I believe BRD and DRG at the least also used some i110. SMN probably did too, since Speed was such a horrible stat for them. So yes, they've released competitive crafted gear.

The i70 and i90 sets were also very worthwhile for progression, though I don't recall any particular pieces there having BiS-status, outside of accessories for tanks, anyway (which are almost always BiS).