The Warrior of Light: Plot Device, Mary Sue or A legitamate charatcer

[Ayuhra]

You misundertood me, you said that all the ones that hates us are the villians, the ones that are opossed to wol and everythone else. That you want someone who hate the wol as a person
I responded that person is Ilberd, he is no villian, but he hates us beacuse of jealousy, beacuse of all we have achieve and non he has done

No I know what you meant and I stand by it what I said. I don't think we'll see much of him until it's time to head into the next expansion. I predict that he will be more important and will hate us as people not as warriors of light...I only hope that he doesn't somehow turn to our side and worship us at some point in the next expansion. Grudgingly working alongside us, fine, just....please don't have him go "THE WOL IS MAGNIFICENT I AM WRONG", SE, please...

[Belhi]

Strictly speaking Lolorito hates us and while you could call him a villain he's positioned so he's not under the 'bad guy' category. He's a character who we hate but really aren't in a position to do much about. Likewise he is kind of stuck with us.

That said I'd love to humiliate him a little.

Outside of that there are plenty of characters who don't like us for whatever reason. The WoL tends to be a likeable character though so those who hate him or her generally are jerks.

[Februs]

Strictly speaking Lolorito hates us and while you could call him a villain he's positioned so he's not under the 'bad guy' category. He's a character who we hate but really aren't in a position to do much about.

Only because the game arbitrarily decides that we must, by default, always do the good, noble and honest thing. Lolorito would have been dead six ways to Sunday by now if most of us had our way, especially at that banquet.

The main reason I'm interested at all in the Warrior of Darkness is because that character (hopefully) will not be bound by some ridiculous chains of nobility that stop him from acting out and speaking up for himself.

[Februs]

the awnswer will probably be either when Omega pops up and absorbs all the primals (and show that it's more powerful than Ultima, which only absorbed 3), they introduce a new tier of difficulity for the Primals, neither will be likely to happen during Heavensward.

That's assuming he shows up at all. Omega has been largely ignored by the progression of the story. It was introduced as a possible background reason for why certain key political figures were interested in the dispute over the Cartaneu Flats, but since then It has not been mentioned at all.

Also, the land dispute has never been settled. SE has all but completely ignored or pushed aside any Lore related to PvP. Seize is the only new PvP content to be released and it has no lore whatsoever. This is actually why a lot of people on the PvP forums are pissed that SE keeps hanging the "blah, blah, Lore, blah, blah," argument over their heads as an excuse for keeping GC restrictions in place instead of removing them and dramatically improving que times.

We also don't know anything about FFXIV's version of Omega Weapon. We only know that it was built as a means of fighting and defeating Bahamut. from this, we can infer that it was likely built for, and used in, the Allagan war against the Dragons so, it's possible that Omega could come up as a topic in future HW patches. However, if he is, it's just as likely that he would make the Primals even less relevant than they are now. For all we know, Omega was simply built to destroy or capture Primals, not absorb them like Ultima. Assuming Omega was responsible for capturing Bahamut and putting him in the moon, it's hard to believe that any Primals we currently know of would be even remotely close to threatening by comparison.

[Fenral]

Outside of that there are plenty of characters who don't like us for whatever reason. The WoL tends to be a likeable character though so those who hate him or her generally are jerks.

Having the only characters who don't like a Mary Sue be portrayed as unsympathetic is also an important part of the Mary Sue trope. Unfortunately.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

You could say the Garlean Empire hate the WOL simply because they're a nuisance in their plans.


Anyways, while the WOL is liked by almost everyone, you also got a handful of people that, at the very least, can't stand to be around them because of how much praise they get. A lot of the crafting quests has you dealing with characters who either see you as an unneeded rival or someone who just got lucky with their successes rather than going through the same growing pains they did. Even in the MSQ, you have a few people calling out the WOL for being a puppet and being said puppet is the only reason people like them. It's not just Illberd that says it; Midgardsomr says to the WOL's face that they're a special snowflake simply because they were picked to be and they're nothing more than that while Ysayle in 2.4 calls the WOL a blind fool for following orders from everyone without seeing the big picture. And, while optional, the Dark Knight quests further shows just how foolish the WOL is for continuing to be everyone's perpetual doormat.


You can have characters oppose the WOL without resorting to hating them.

Only because the game arbitrarily decides that we must, by default, always do the good, noble and honest thing. Lolorito would have been dead six ways to Sunday by now if most of us had our way, especially at that banquet.

The main reason I'm interested at all in the Warrior of Darkness is because that character (hopefully) will not be bound by some ridiculous chains of nobility that stop him from acting out and speaking up for himself.

In most JRPGs, the protagonists are always ones who do the right thing, even if it makes them look stupid, so I would not expect the scene at the banquet to be any different. I also would not get your hopes up about the Warrior of Darkness being different because I have a gut feeling that he will just be the attack dog for the Ascians instead of having his own will. He seems to be nothing more than a counterpart to the Warrior of Light simply to stop them.

[Belhi]

Only because the game arbitrarily decides that we must, by default, always do the good, noble and honest thing. Lolorito would have been dead six ways to Sunday by now if most of us had our way, especially at that banquet.

The main reason I'm interested at all in the Warrior of Darkness is because that character (hopefully) will not be bound by some ridiculous chains of nobility that stop him from acting out and speaking up for himself.

Well yeah, the WoL is basically stuck as a good, noble and honest sort but that's the story they wanted to tell.

I wouldn't call the WoL's actions ridiculous though. Things like killing Lolorito in those situations would have massive consequences. Bad consequences. Its reason vs passion more than nobility vs vengefulness. Taking down Lolorito might even have been noble in a way but it would come at the price of flushing Ul'dah down the toilet when their strength and wealth will almost certainly be needed when Garlemald invades again. Its not like the WoL can take down the Garleans solo.

Having the only characters who don't like a Mary Sue be portrayed as unsympathetic is also an important part of the Mary Sue trope. Unfortunately.

Its not that the WoL is a Mary Sue but the fact that in general the WoL is a respectful, compassionate and open minded individual that makes it hard to have non jerk not like him/her. The WoL really doesn't have many traits that would inspire hatred in others.

[Fenral]

I'm not saying, in this instance at least, that it's a good or a bad thing, just that it is most certainly a thing that is being done.

If, hypothetically, the arrival of the Warrior of Darkness signals the beginning of a much-needed genre shift in the direction of "deconstruction," then we will be able to confirm two things at once: one, that the Warrior of Light at present is indeed intended to be impossibly, obnoxiously good; and two, that the writers understood that and wanted to use that to a deliberate and subversive effect.

Right now, though, we're still seeing the trope (whatever you wanna call it) played almost completely straight, with every blemish ultimately turned towards reinforcing the WoL's overall perfectly perfect perfection.

[Grayve]

I disagree that there is a much needed genre shift to "deconstruction". There are plenty of works out there deconstructing classic fantasy, I am enjoying the old school approach of classic old style fantasy. ( can't quote cause on iPad)

[Februs]

Snip

What I'm referring to as ridiculous (besides the entire notion that someone wants to frame the guy who has been protecting their entire way of life almost every day of the week and twice on sundays) is the fact that during the whole affair, we don't move, protest, say a word, or even gesture in any meaningful way. We get slapped in irons and pouted on the floor while everyone else goes on and on about whatever. We do not behave like a "character" of any type in that instance. The way we acted, or rather didn't act, made us seem like a neglected weapon. It was like, "oh, jeez. Someone left this gun unattended and now the Sultana is dead.... Welp, nothing for it. Better make sure the safety is on and store it properly in the gun rack."

It's not so much that I expect the WoL to go on a rampage or something, and I know it wouldn't have really "fit" with our character to kill Lolorito (though the simplest solutions are often the best ones. Really, the bigger problem is one of witnesses...). It's that we literally did nothing. Our presence in that scene was about as relevant as the cup that the Sultana drank out of, and it makes the WoL seem much more like plot device than a character. They made up for it, a little, with the sacrifice of all the Scions, but, again, it hardly made us seem like a person so much as a treasured item that they couldn't bare to see taken away from them.