Crafting a Dead Horse: Work vs. Reward Seriously Needs a Revamp

[Alahra]

Maybe preparing for an unknown future doesn't seem like a reward to some people. Opinions vary.

Did you craft much in ARR? That aspect has always been there, and still remains, but what's different about HW compared to ARR is that we once had both the ability to somewhat "futureproof" (available gear/stat caps have always been higher than the highest tier of starred crafting) and the ability to create useful and unique items once we *reached* that highest tier. The latter is now largely missing, and we only have the former. It's essentially that removal that has those crafters who dislike the new structure dissatisfied.

[chidarake]

they cant use Gordian Parts/Manifestos as part of the system unless they become tradable as all it will do is make it so the majority of top end crafters who don't raid locked out of the system. they would all but give up on crafting and so would a lot of others which would ruin the economy further.

plus im sure raiders would rather upgrade their battle gear before trying to upgrade crafter/gatherer gear.

also if they introduced a raid level drop that was specifically for sale to upgrade crafter/gatherer gear there would be none stop complaints as they would be very expensive since raiders can only get items from the raids once a week even if this was a freely handed out drop from the chest.

not that its a bad idea it just has to be something that as a crafter or gatherer you can work on regardless of what other stuff you do in the game.

I agree that we shouldn't have to grind more red scrips to create the 180 battle set and it should of been left purely for our own gear upgrades. but obviously as stated many a time now its to stop raiders from getting stronger gear quicker then destroying the raids in the first week.


the whole system to the devs makes sense on paper to a degree but it obviously doesn't work from a player perspective. its a very long term grind that really though doesn't take to much time on a day to day basis. its when maybe 3.2 comes out that the majority of people have just finished gearing all jobs and melding that SE brings out something newer and better that invalidates all the time and effort that people put in that will be the biggest annoyance of it all.


also on the whole theres not enough to craft, there is still a tonne of stuff that can be crafted from ARR that people want and need from gear to glam to minions and bardings. this stuff has not stopped selling or being desired. people are just annoyed there isn't enough variety of stuff to craft in HW that they can control the market on themselves and get constant 1mil+ sales cus all crafters are at the same level again gear wise atleast.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

they cant use Gordian Parts/Manifestos as part of the system unless they become tradable as all it will do is make it so the majority of top end crafters who don't raid locked out of the system. they would all but give up on crafting and so would a lot of others which would ruin the economy further.

plus im sure raiders would rather upgrade their battle gear before trying to upgrade crafter/gatherer gear.

also if they introduced a raid level drop that was specifically for sale to upgrade crafter/gatherer gear there would be none stop complaints as they would be very expensive since raiders can only get items from the raids once a week even if this was a freely handed out drop from the chest.

Exactly. Using Gordian stuff for crafting is a very bad idea, it just adds even more work to the current Red Scrips systems (I mean, come on, ain't Eso + CraftRed+ GatherRed + Favors still not enough? You still want more work to farm these untradeables?). Unless they remove the weekly cap and make them tradeable... but that will still generate other problems.

What they need right now, is some kind of raid drop from NON-weekly capped loots for crafting i190 accessories. Law tome mats isn't a bad idea... it's the same old boring idea, but at least it works. Myth tomes mats didn't have a problem, soldiery mats didn't have a problem, poetics mats didn't have a problem. So we can safely assume Law tomes mats will be ok too.

[Aniforani]

I miss the days when my crafting was useful to my free company and LS friends. I was sort of an investor in my friends who were endgame. None of my crafts were for profit, they were there to gift to my friends who enjoyed endgame challenge more then me. In appreciation of the efforts I made to make their progression faster they would push me through the content. While this mirrors the way players can pay for clears, there was something more noble about it when you were the benefactor to those now helping you out. As we get further and further disconnected from other players their perspective of us looks more and more negative.

[Silverbane]

Did you craft much in ARR?

Not enough to be one of the few elite crafters making obscene profits off of raiders, if that's your point.
But enough to have all crafts to 50 and be tired of grinding Ehcatl sealant.

[Alahra]

Not enough to be one of the few elite crafters making obscene profits off of raiders, if that's your point.
But enough to have all crafts to 50 and be tired of grinding Ehcatl sealant.

I was curious because not to belittle but more because you seemed to be approaching crafting from a different standpoint than others that are frustrated with the current state of things. For those of us that were focused on making starred raiding gear and the like, the newer system doesn't offer a lot of what it used to. Outside of doing that stuff, it's honestly fairly well constructed and I can see why others enjoy it.

[StouterTaru]

The main issue with HW crafted gear is that is was made as "catch-up gear" that required twice as much time/effort as upgraded Law gear, on a weekly lockout system. Sure it's marginally better due to the materia slots, but secondary stats took a huge hit and TV materia is almost non-existent.

So who exactly is the target market for this gear? Someone with a ton of gil, who has the patience to wait a couple weeks until crafters are capable of making it, but doesn't have the patience to take the time to gear up the easy way. That's a very tiny market.

[CatfishCassie]

Exactly. Using Gordian stuff for crafting is a very bad idea, it just adds even more work to the current Red Scrips systems (I mean, come on, ain't Eso + CraftRed+ GatherRed + Favors still not enough? You still want more work to farm these untradeables?). Unless they remove the weekly cap and make them tradeable... but that will still generate other problems.

What they need right now, is some kind of raid drop from NON-weekly capped loots for crafting i190 accessories. Law tome mats isn't a bad idea... it's the same old boring idea, but at least it works. Myth tomes mats didn't have a problem, soldiery mats didn't have a problem, poetics mats didn't have a problem. So we can safely assume Law tomes mats will be ok too.

I wasn't suggesting using gordian stuff for crafting components... I was suggesting making craftable stuff upgradeable with gordian drops. The point is to make crafted stuff worthwhile to raiders without allowing people to skip the raid progression with crafted gear (since that's likely the driving design mechanic behind capping crafted items at sucha comparatively low ilvl). Basically, we'd be letting people take the stuff we're selling them and upgrade it with the stuff they're already getting from Alexander.

[CatfishCassie]

I miss the days when my crafting was useful to my free company and LS friends. I was sort of an investor in my friends who were endgame. None of my crafts were for profit, they were there to gift to my friends who enjoyed endgame challenge more then me. In appreciation of the efforts I made to make their progression faster they would push me through the content. While this mirrors the way players can pay for clears, there was something more noble about it when you were the benefactor to those now helping you out. As we get further and further disconnected from other players their perspective of us looks more and more negative.

I agree... I've always told people "Crafting IS my endgame". I had to hit level 60 Warrior just to be able to gather in the upper level areas, and I did... I was done and geared before Alexander came out. But I dislike raiding... crafting is much more relaxing to me. As other posters have said, it's a bit of problem solving and I like having skills that help people. But I seem less and less able to help people because I can't make anything they need unless they're another crafter, and the puzzle solving part of it is largely gone due to crafting experience (I can 100% anything that's not a 2-star craft with a macro). I still think Final Fantasy has the best overall crafting system since Star Wars Galaxies, it's just that the things I craft seem less and less compelling as time goes on, and require more and more work for the same or worse relative outcome.

[Alahra]

So who exactly is the target market for this gear? Someone with a ton of gil, who has the patience to wait a couple weeks until crafters are capable of making it, but doesn't have the patience to take the time to gear up the easy way. That's a very tiny market.

Considering how scarce the materials are, it takes a lot longer than a couple weeks for the items to be readily available, too. It's been two and a half months (give or take a couple days) since we got access to Red Scrips. On Diabolos, there have been 3 MB sales of left side i180 DoW/DoM gear (healer body, healer legs, and BRD/MCH body). Two of those were within the first week. The third piece was sold about two weeks ago. There's a tank body that's been up for about a month (though I don't know exactly when it was put up).

Many of the items are on people's wish lists, but the opportunity cost of making them is simply too high still, even after 2.5 months. If it weren't for the developer vacation, we'd be looking at the "catch up" patch in about 2-3 weeks, normally. We might see some more sales over the next month or so, but once 3.1 hits and there are two new sources of gear, the i180 stuff won't even be in demand anymore except for a few pieces for glamour.