Quote Originally Posted by Ryel View Post
**snip**
I very clearly did not mention end-game content, and the parallel I drew was explicitly 4-man content. I feel you miseed the point. You mentioned the Demon Wall in AK, which I've mentioned in such discussions before also. I said that as long as players were capable of completing content, preferrably without a wipe, doing damage agequate to complete the content, they were meeting the goals, targets or expectations implicit in the content itself.

In short if you expect a fast 4-man 'relay' then pre-form the group from competitive players, when using DF be prepared to accept the fun runners.
Let me be clear, I am not referring to end-game content.

The point is that bringing the mentallity and tools of competitive running to fun runners doesn't enhance them, it either alienates them, or possibly turns them into competitive runners with more limited capability to perform. Whatever happens, making fun runners conform to competitive running mentallity and tool use, fundamentally changes the fun run into pseudo competitive running, which isn't what the fun runners wanted or else they'd already be doing it.

Requests for in-game parsing tools and demands for faster runs with the clear corollary being players are bad for not doing these things, are - imho - simply leading toa greater divide between players.

In the end, with regard to parsers and speedof completing a run, I stand by the comparison I drew against fun funners and competitive runners running 4-man relay races.