The issue nobody wants to address

[Arashmin]

People really need to drop 'paid for the sub' as an argument. Everyone pays through and through in time and money to be here, but that doesn't given you full reign to drag everybody else down to your level. Many things that you pay for, if you mess up enough, they'll take it away - driver's licenses, XBox subscriptions, even internet and phone.

Just because it's a subscription game doesn't mean it should shelter you from acting like a human being.

[Colorful]

I think the core of the problem of bad players is the game, not the community that advocates playing like a potato. There's nothing in this game that is actually difficult and is necessary to reaching level cap, even optional dungeons are the easiest thing and when they're "hard", they're immediately nerfed to the ground to the point of not being fun. I played a little more WildStar earlier and hit level 10, did my first dungeon and was blown away. I went in expecting Satasha, and I got Fractal. That's right, a level 10 tutorial dungeon (it is literally a tutorial dungeon with bosses intended to teach you mechanics with an announcer telling you to interrupt) is as difficult, if not more difficult than a level 60 "expert" dungeon. You had to interrupt the bosses or it would result in an instant wipe, they gave you plenty of time to do it as it is a tutorial, but it still forces you to learn that those mechanics are necessary. The final boss actually has a DPS check and decent mechanics that took my party 2 wipes to get down and was engaging and difficult than both level 60 dungeons we have now even on the 2nd time I did it when I knew exactly what to do.

I guess at the end of the day we have to deal with players with the "I pay my sub so I do what I want" attitude in Duty Finder, but if I put up my own party anyone like that is getting kicked, no exceptions.

[Ayuhra]

I wonder sometimes if "bad dps" is because being a damage dealer in this game is...Maybe not HARDER than in other games but different in a way that is more unforgiving.

My go to comparison is always WoW because WoW was my one true love for many years. Say what you want about that game in its current state, in its day it played like a dream (and still does, mostly). As DPS your job was doing the correct rotation or following the correct priority checklist while being aware of your surroundings. Like in FFXIV, yes?

Except more classes seem to have rotations more so than priorities in this game and if the rotation is not done perfectly some classes are punished severely. WoW, and many other games, are not quite as unforgiving. You might do lower damage if you mess up but the rapid global cooldown and ability to macro certain attacks together (a self-buff and an attack, usually, so your buffs are always up) means you can get back up onto your feet faster. Every boss in WoW had an enrage timer too but they weren't has hardwired into the encounters as they are here.

So people who are used to games that are more rotationally forgiving might come here and a slip up that would cause a momentary lapse elsewhere might cause almost a minute of low damage in FFXIV.

[Nomad-phx]

I personally don't care either way at what speed DF parties want to run, although I am always a bit leery when I see a tank run off to start a speed run, before healer can even buff us.

That's why I put protect and stoneskin on my pld, that and for taking care of ressed people during raids, if I handle the protect and hit with clemency the healer only has to swiftcast>raise>focus me again.

[RocheKat]

The only time you are forced to play with random people is 24 man raids. Other than that there is no reason you should ever had to play with these terrible people ruining your experience.

[RocheKat]

I don't understand this unyielding obsession so many people in this game have with speedrunning. If an instance takes longer than 10 minutes, it's almost like some of you are ready to blow your brains out. I'm not opposed to speedrunning, but sometimes you just can't and that's okay.

My guess is the same people who are upset about anything more than 15 minutes in a dungeon complain about a lack of content. MMOs... social games right full of anti-social people.

[Acheron_Abolisher]

IMO, we wouldn't need to even have this thread if we had more endgame content. Everyone is sick of their 500th Neverreap run and just want it to be over so when it takes longer than it needs to, people get mad.

This might be cliched, but I think we shouldn't hate the player, we should hate the game.

[AlphaFox]

My guess is the same people who are upset about anything more than 15 minutes in a dungeon complain about a lack of content. MMOs... social games right full of anti-social people.

Though to be fair in DF, your chance of grouping with those same 3/7 people are pretty slim, so as it goes, why worry about what they say if your never going to see them again?

[Arashmin]

My guess is the same people who are upset about anything more than 15 minutes in a dungeon complain about a lack of content. MMOs... social games right full of anti-social people.

That's a mighty bold assumption. I'm fine with dungeons taking up to 30 minutes or so, especially in DF, if it's for relatively sane reasons. However I'm also in the 'lack of content' camp. Also, I'd argue against MMOs really being all that social unless you're talking about the highest-of-high-end with complex mechanics, because otherwise everything you need to know is telegraphed in an easily observed and understandable way that you should be able to learn to do by yourself.

[Tyrn]

IMO, we wouldn't need to even have this thread if we had more endgame content. Everyone is sick of their 500th Neverreap run and just want it to be over so when it takes longer than it needs to, people get mad.

This might be cliched, but I think we shouldn't hate the player, we should hate the game.

We wouldn't need to have this thread if we had content with rewards that enticed a larger portion of the playerbase to improve their play.

I really dislike the fact that people expect or resort to enticement to do something. It seriously just makes it seem like the devs are parents trying to make their kids (us) do their chores so that they can get their allowance. "If you take out the trash every week, you can take the car on the weekends" "Ugh! Fine! I hate you!"

If that's what it takes to get people to at the very least read tooltips and think about how the mechanics of the job they play works because SE sure as hell won't encourage people to do that at any point during leveling or during any part of the main scenario (or any side stories either for that matter).