The issue nobody wants to address

[Colorful]

@ OP do you pay their subscription? People shouldn't have to run DF like a raid. People should be able to go at their own pace. Sometimes I get a 15 minute DF and other times it takes 30 minutes. Why because there are people of all skill levels. People play games to have fun and they have jobs/school and you shouldn't have to play the game like a job!

Why do people assume that performing a somewhat proper rotation turns the game into a job? From my perspective clicking 1-2-3 over and over like a mindless popoto turns the game into an unfun chore, it's like playing playing an FPS on easy. I know I like to challenge myself when I play games.

[Leigaon]

@ OP do you pay their subscription? People shouldn't have to run DF like a raid. People should be able to go at their own pace. Sometimes I get a 15 minute DF and other times it takes 30 minutes. Why because there are people of all skill levels. People play games to have fun and they have jobs/school and you shouldn't have to play the game like a job!

Of course he doesn't, but on the same note they don't pay for the OPs. The point is to have fun, but peoples opinions on what is fun varies. This then conflicts with other people. Take me for example, what do I find enjoyable? Being able to see the actual movements of the characters without 10 mobs huddled around me and blinding my eyes with AOES to the point where a retina detaches. Not everyone wants to go slow, but in this game of compromise I might speed things up to where I can still enjoy everything.

You're right people should have fun but at the same time both ends need to take time to realize that they need to give up something in return, that is where everything hits the fan.

Why do people assume that performing a somewhat proper rotation turns the game into a job? From my perspective clicking 1-2-3 over and over like a mindless popoto turns the game into an unfun chore, it's like playing playing an FPS on easy. I know I like to challenge myself when I play games.

It's not so much that you're having to do a rotation but it's the way it is handled, whether the user knows it or not, saying something in certain ways will give you better results most of the time. For example a Gladiator isn't using flash, instead of "how about you learn your $%#^ing job and quit wasting my time?" (actual quote there from a DPS in a dungeon I was healing) and instead go "The mobs are attacking the DPS"? One scenario the tank rages and refuses to listen, the other takes about 5 minutes more to explain but in the end turns out that flash was not being used, but then implemented and the DPS also learned maybe we should attack the targeted mob marked as X or 1 instead of just randomly choosing a mob. In the end compromise, tank needs to learn flash properly and the DPS need to not go gun-ho on every random mob, instead if you're using single target help kill what's being focused on.

Then again them saying playing the game for fun can be looked at in two ways, if you're performing well you're having fun, if you're figuring something out on your own you're having fun. Nobody likes being told they are wrong, so without knowing it a user who is having "fun" but doing a bad rotation or lack using skills that really make a difference can be coached into using things while still thinking they're having the same amount of fun.

Still you got the extreme from both ends, the one player who refuses to listen "whateva, I do what I want!" those can't be helped, they're out there in the real world and in the game. Then you got the ones on the other end who would have no problem clearing your entire bloodline from the face of this earth all because you missed the limit break. It's a mixture of compromise, the ones who refuse to budge result in the situations that cause anger.

The negative kind of anger from both ends produces the whole silent treatment, where you go in say like Steps and go "everyone ready? okay with what to do?" silence...until that one impatient person says "Pull already" and when you do, towers aren't taken, cannons are empty they're the first ones to yell at us all.

[Gilraen]

It's not that people don't want to improve, it's how you are trying to improve them. If all you do is tell people that they aren't performing well and should be doing this instead of that then yes, you are going to get resistance because you're not being helpful, you're being bossy. I've not seen people like this very often, but every time it's ticked me off. I mean, if someone is going to be like that then why aren't they playing the class they're chastising? Lead by example, and what. Rare is it that someone actually asks the person they want to help what they are doing as the class. Being rude doesn't win you anyone's attention, only their ire.

[Priya]

"Speed run" shouldn't even be a thing. The dungeon should just be inherently fast even with 1 pack pulls and 1DPS letting their dog play for them. That's SE's problem. They try to make 4 man dungeons (which we're all only in for tomes) be weighty which leads to "git gud, skrubz" speeches. That kind of conversion should only exist in a raid environment, not some low man DF daily dungeon spam.

This isn't to say FF 4 man dungeons are hard, they're not, but they're incredibly draggy given just how many people can't handle something about them.

They've greatly improved on this since launch; however, they need to go further.

[MXMoondoggie]

I'm no against parsers as such just people who use them to be an idiot. If people want to use one to learn how to get the most out of their DPS then great but some people seem to see it as an e-peen contest where they rant on in chat at whoever is bottom of the list. That's not helping anything that's being a disruption to the run. I feel about the same on using STR accessories. If you can use them and do well with it then great. If they cause somebody to be a hindrance then they shouldn't use them.

[Galaktica]

I don't understand this unyielding obsession so many people in this game have with speedrunning. If an instance takes longer than 10 minutes, it's almost like some of you are ready to blow your brains out. I'm not opposed to speedrunning, but sometimes you just can't and that's okay.

This is how I feel about the absence of parsers though. I am well aware of the benefits that parsers provide. I have absolutely zero faith in the community at large to use them responsibly. I already said in a different thread a while back that the most they should do is add parsers to premades only and even then, I still think that's probably a sketchy idea because it's just going to lead to people begging for them to add parsers to DF groups.

[Craiger]

Isn't it just people misunderstanding these posts though?

Most people don't ask that everyone does maximum DPS in dungeons, but in many cases, players are doing the same DPS you would be doing if you just Auto attack or something (well kinda).

If both DPS, Tank and maybe the healer does average DPS, then the run wouldn't take long at all to finish.

For example, I play MNK, and all I need to do to get average DPS, is to constantly press buttons... Doesn't even have to be the right rotation.

I feel like many here are against having to do good DPS in dungeons, when in reality, they're doing average DPS, and nobody would complain if everyone did that amount of DPS.


Also, on parsers... Players are already using them, so no point in discussing whether you think players should be able to use them in dungeons (for example) or not... I still haven't seen anyone getting harassed for having low DPS in any content outside raids, and in raids you have to have parsers.

[dank1]

Isn't it just people misunderstanding these posts though?

Most people don't ask that everyone does maximum DPS in dungeons, but in many cases, players are doing the same DPS you would be doing if you just Auto attack or something (well kinda).

If both DPS, Tank and maybe the healer does average DPS, then the run wouldn't take long at all to finish.

Yeah that's the misconception I'm trying to address, the people giving you tips or even calling you out arent out to get you, before they even knew you existed they didn't have some personal vendetta, it's as simple as someone giving you a tip is just trying to help you it's that easy

[Suggestion]

Now my opinion personally is not what im about to ask but ive never heard this question yet, "Is it too hard to find like minded people to run content with?", Ive read so many responses such as like "Tough it out, there's a party finder", or "Find an fc and run it with them", "Thats not what duty finder is for" ect...

Now while i think there are plenty of chances to play with people who share your values, maybe i just have thicker skin and know what to expect when it comes to a randomized draft like Duty Finder.

So does anyone think its too hard for the average joe to find like minded people??? I personally don't think so.

[Whiteroom]

OP is right about how the play bad culture is. People don't only enable it, they promote it, mostly using the "you pay for your sub, you do what you want, when you want, to who you want".

A perfect example would be on of the threads on this fourm, titled something like "my AST is weak." . In that thread the OP couldn't heal a DRK in Dusk Vigil. Half of the responses without any actual knowlage were basically "Crap tank, poor you." Anyone who bothered to look saw the fool was using a lvl 43 weapon where at least 115 shoul be used. On top of that the healer has no idea how to properly heal, since he only keeps one benefic on his hot bar. At the time benefic I at that. End result the poster said something along the lines of "Welp, looks like it was just a crappy tank. Imma keep on keepin on".

Good job forums, you just coddled a terrible healer and sent him back out when a little education would probably made every run of his easier(and more enjoyable) on him and anyone he runs with in the future. As a result of the info he found here, how many painful runs will be had until he actually figures it out or drops the class.

People on the the supporting side of play as bad as you like always seem to think the team is there solely for them, and that they aren't there for the team.