The issue nobody wants to address

[Warlyx]

cough BisEx cough (never stepping into that again)

didnt like the experience? hahaha

i prefer fast run 99% of the time, the other 1% is when im new to the dungeon and want to enjoy the scenary

but dungeons are a team effort, if the tank + healer can handle a mass pull then why not? instead of using single rotation, u use aoe rotation....u finish the dungeon faster and can rerun it again all the times u want.

[Leshpar]

I care about people's attitude in a group environment, not skill level. As long as we'll complete the content in the time allotted, then I will be happy. If people are rude I don't care how good you are or if you're world's first A4S I'll still kick you and mute you. If you're nice you can be wearing all vendor whites and die in aoe's and I won't care as long as we're not wiping to the same thing to the point we can't progress any more.

[Gilraen]

Seems the entire point here is, "Why you no speed run?" I don't personally hate speed runs but I know the key to them that people apparently don't want to believe. The pace of a speed run is set by the whole party, not just one person. Speed runs rely on the tank being able to hold hate against a large number of mobs without letting any slip, on the healer to keep the tank healthy while a large number of mobs wail on them ad nauseaum and on the DDs being able to drop the large number of mobs in a timely manner so the healer isn't having to heal a large amount of damage and the tank isn't having to burn all their buffs to mitigate so much damage. If any of these things isn't up to the task then a speed run isn't going to be viable no matter how much one of the party tries to force the issue. This is where being flexible is key and where the forums and in-practice seem to split ways.

I've been in alot of attempted speed runs where it just wasn't going to work and noone pointed fingers at anyone. We just respawned and agreed it wasn't going to work and kept going at a pace we could handle. No tears, no fuss, just a successful run from then to end. The number of rage fests from such failures I can barely remember enough to count. The forums, though, seem to only care that people either speed run or, if not, keep out of their precious content... Mayhaps the vocal minority here should take a cue from those who don't care enough to say and just enjoy the game.

[FoxyAreku]

WoW has rotation problems. Every single MMORPG that has a rotation has this problem. With WoW though, it's slightly alleviated due to how things have evolved throughout the years. Some classes are so streamlined that it's essentially PLD combo to do your main part of the rotation with some cooldowns thrown in. They even added in a help section to your abilities window that shows the basics of how you play each individual class and spec. Still, it doesn't stop some folks from not following it.

One huge reason why it comes up a little more in FFXIV is because the devs make content that depends on DPS working together. With the exception of Heroic mode raids in a game like WoW, there's very little fear of the consequences for having sub-par DPS in most relevant content. There, a decked out DPS is essentially capable of output triple (or more) that of a fresh max level doing non-raid content. Not quite the same here, in that you wouldn't even hit double. Combine that with what you said about playerbase size between this and non-WoW MMORPGs and it makes it all the more noticeable that things are slower here.

I agree. WoW also recently added RNG elements to most rotations so your character's max potential is completely out of your hands, (think machinist without reload on every class), so skill is of little factor.

There is a difference between using time having fun, and wasting it in frustration because people can't be assed to pull their weight. cough BisEx cough (never stepping into that again)

But bismarck is great I had so much fun clearing that at release with everyone being i160.

[Colorful]

But bismarck is great I had so much fun clearing that at release with everyone being i160.

If I want my giant monster whale fix I'll play MH and battle the Dah'ren Mohran, it's definitely a lot more fun.

[CrystalRainbow]

For me it's a game something I can do with my wife, and enjoy.. if it takes 10 day or 30 day to get something done so be it.

HOWEVER...

My wife put up with how I play without saying anything as she cares. Which is good because it pushes me to be a better player.
If it wasn't for my wife I would likely not have gotten 1/2 of what I got done done.

[Kosmos992k]

Speed runs? Read my sig....

[Zephera]

I prefer full runs of dungeons with the mobs pulled on at a time. More loot can be collected and the risk of anyone dying is dramatically reduced. That said, I'm not against doing a speedrun if the rest of the group wants to, just that speedruns with DF groups sounds like a really bad idea since you don't exactly know how the other people play or how skillful they are.

[Blissa]

@ OP do you pay their subscription? People shouldn't have to run DF like a raid. People should be able to go at their own pace. Sometimes I get a 15 minute DF and other times it takes 30 minutes. Why because there are people of all skill levels. People play games to have fun and they have jobs/school and you shouldn't have to play the game like a job!

[dank1]

@ OP do you pay their subscription? People shouldn't have to run DF like a raid. People should be able to go at their own pace. Sometimes I get a 15 minute DF and other times it takes 30 minutes. Why because there are people of all skill levels. People play games to have fun and they have jobs/school and you shouldn't have to play the game like a job!

Work OP so I havent got around to commenting on most the posts I disagree with here but I'll respond to this.

Of course I don't pay their sub but I do pay my own, time isn't a huge deal when I choose to DF a dungeon, and I have the mental capacity to understand not everyone has full knowledge of their class or the gear to be able to push big numbers that isn't the issue.

The issue isn't even whether the run becomes a speed run or not since this doesnt apply to just dungeons, the problem is when I let's say coach someone or attempt to in a nice fashion and I get backlash from either that person of someone else in the group.
I'm not kidding when I say I end up getting kicked half the time for offering a tip (again in a friendly manner) which is why I ask and no one has responded that I've seen, why is the part of the community who "plays how they want to" opposed to tips on improving?

At this point the "elitist" attitude the playerbase rants about all the time is no where near as prevalent as the even worse "anti-elitist" attitude of players who seem to hate those who they deem as elitist