Raider to Non-Raider: an exhibition on thoughts and misconceptions

[Edenholt]

Um, not sure if you know this but the population of forum posters here, is quite heavily skewed towards hardcore players and raiders, at least that has been my experience for more than two years, which contrasts deeply to the actual game where the vast majority of players are not hardcore, or raiders. For more than two years, non-hardcore, non-raider voices on this forum have tended to be drowned out, so it's quite amusing to see the hardcore/raider community acting like the down-trodden.

Are we reading the same ffxiv forums? The vast majority of the forum poster seems to rather loath on raider and any and every person who actually manage to do contents or perform well in this game.

[Kosmos992k]

Could you just please leave the thread? You are not here to help solve anything other than inflate your own self importance like some true voice of reason that can cut through all the BS.

No, I will not just "please leave the thread", and you should be well aware of why. I've posted numerous times in this discussion in other threads making concrete and constructive suggestions such as, but not limited to;
Adding additional bosses & mechanics to Savage to rpovide some variety,
Adding additinal chambers/areas to the Savage version, for the same reason,
Adding a tier of crafted gear that when melded decently, provides an alternate path for gearing reducing the need to grind normal mode,

If you read my posts you'd know this. As for inflating your own self importance, you might want to check in the mirror because Not only your original post but the one I am replying to reek of it. Telling someone to leave a topic because you don't like what they say? Want to talk about inflated self importance again? This is a public forrum, I'm posting on topic and civily. You may not like my opinion, but your liking my opinion is not key to whether I can post it.

[Atmora]

snip.

Dude your first post was literally just mocking him and added nothing to the discussion, not to mention his OP isn't self important just because it's long and judging from what you've said so far you didn't even read all of it.

[zosia]

No, I will not just "please leave the thread", and you should be well aware of why. I've posted numerous times in this discussion in other threads making concrete and constructive suggestions such as, but not limited to;
Adding additional bosses & mechanics to Savage to rpovide some variety,
Adding additinal chambers/areas to the Savage version, for the same reason,
Adding a tier of crafted gear that when melded decently, provides an alternate path for gearing reducing the need to grind normal mode,

If you read my posts you'd know this. As for inflating your own self importance, you might want to check in the mirror because Not only your original post but the one I am replying to reek of it. Telling someone to leave a topic because you don't like what they say? Want to talk about inflated self importance again? This is a public forrum, I'm posting on topic and civily. You may not like my opinion, but your liking my opinion is not key to whether I can post it.

I did not demand you leave, I asked you to. I even invited you to stay if you actually want to talk about this without dragging your raider vs. casual rabble into this.

The first reply to this thread added nothing of substance other than to mock and ridicule me.

Thats OK, the OP used the Olive Branch to beat on the post he used as the basis for this topic, so we may need a new branch.

Your first substantive reply was nothing more than retort to someone else statement rather than expanding on your own thoughts. You are hardly posting constructively, it's only in your retort directly to me do you actually add any ideas.

I sort of reiterate what I said before. I would love to hear what you have to say. I am glad you are thinking of some of the same solutions I would like myself. Just, please, if you would, stop talking about my friends, statics members, and myself like we are all self disillusioned basement dwelling man children that had their toys taken away so we are just whining.

We are paying customers that love this game as much as you do and all customers, causal to the hardcore, should expect to enjoy this service.

[CGMidlander]

Um, not sure if you know this but the population of forum posters here, is quite heavily skewed towards hardcore players and raiders, at least that has been my experience for more than two years, which contrasts deeply to the actual game where the vast majority of players are not hardcore, or raiders. For more than two years, non-hardcore, non-raider voices on this forum have tended to be drowned out, so it's quite amusing to see the hardcore/raider community acting like the down-trodden.

You're kidding, right?
The degree of anti-data, anti-large pull, anti-str tank, and anti-good play sentiment on the official forums is sickening.

[Ryel]

Lol, parsers are not something used by the more cadual end of the spectrum, the state of duty finder find just as many critics in one group of players as any other group. As for difficulty, complaints about that are one of the things that prompt my cynicism about some raiders - given we have suggestions to rebalance Alexander Savage at ilvl 190, andothers complaining it's too stiff a dps check. This forum has (imho) always had a disproportionately high representation from the hardcore and/or raider communities. I suspect it always will.

I'm not even talking about raid difficulty, I'm talking about the dozens of threads and posts made about content like Titan Ex, Steps of Faith, Amdapor Keep, and Pharos Sirius being "too hard", I promise you the "raid community" aren't the ones making those posts.

Also the real complaints about DPS checks aren't that the fights that use them are too hard but rather:

A) they're tossed into the Duty Finder with no parser to measure performance towards those checks.
B) Constantly using them as a measure of difficulty is boring.

The fact that any thread mentioning tools to help players improve their performance is instantly buried in waves of comments about "letting people play how they want to play" or how players shouldn't have to "worry about their DPS" or the conversations in general degrade into tossing around words like elitist (which is constantly being improperly used btw) is a testament to how skewed the forums currently are.

If you honestly think that "hardcore players and raiders" make up the majority of posts on these forums I'm not sure you've actually been reading any of the posts.

Many of the players that you're seeing speak up now are either from the "wait and see crowd" that were willing to stick it out until Heavensward launch and now see that not much (See: nothing really) is changing, or are the players who have continued to see the dwindling numbers of long time subscribers quitting because they've gotten tired of waiting for things to "get better".

[Kosmos992k]

Dude your first post was literally just mocking him and added nothing to the discussion, not to mention his OP isn't self important just because it's long and judging from what you've said so far you didn't even read all of it.

My first post was quoted in it's entirity from a completely separate thread, that's why he knows why I won't just leave this one. Furthermore he just added another of my posts from a separate thread and poured scorn on it. You want to talk about mocking people, consider the actions of the OP cherry picking spefifically my posts from other threads. Never mind talking about issues lets just cross posts people's posts from other topics to incite shall we? Very constructive, very civil and polite. What's next whackylacing?

The first reply to this thread added nothing of substance other than to mock and ridicule me.

If making a remark about the person who cross posted something I wrote in another thread counts as ridicule (go back to your original post, and the comment you quoted from another topic, and then work out who you quoted.), then I'm sorry, but you're being more than a little oversensitive.

Your first substantive reply was nothing more than retort to someone else statement rather than expanding on your own thoughts. You are hardly posting constructively, it's only in your retort directly to me retort you actually add any ideas.

I see, so you get to moderate topics do you? No, you don't. As for "posting constructively", you have on two or more occasions in this topic cross posted a comment of mine from another topic. You are making this personal, which it is not and never should be. If you think so little of what I am saying, why does it generate such a large and strong response? Did I hit a nerve? Either way, cross posting someone elses comments from other threads is pretty poor form, and pretty hypocritical for someone claiming others are not positive or constructive.

[Stanelis]

It's infrequent for a team to be comprised of 8/8 top server players. its often more like a grab bag of skill levels.

5 years and someone finally understand the issue with hard modes in MMORPG. There is hope.

[zosia]

My first post was quoted in it's entirity from a completely separate thread, that's why he knows why I won't just leave this one. Furthermore he just added another of my posts from a separate thread and poured scorn on it. You want to talk about mocking people, consider the actions of the OP cherry picking spefifically my posts from other threads. Never mind talking about issues lets just cross posts people's posts from other topics to incite shall we? Very constructive, very civil and polite. What's next whackylacing?



If making a remark about the person who cross posted something I wrote in another thread counts as ridicule (go back to your original post, and the comment you quoted from another topic, and then work out who you quoted.), then I'm sorry, but you're being more than a little oversensitive.



I see, so you get to moderate topics do you? No, you don't. As for "posting constructively", you have on two or more occasions in this topic cross posted a comment of mine from another topic. You are making this personal, which it is not and never should be. If you think so little of what I am saying, why does it generate such a large and strong response? Did I hit a nerve? Either way, cross posting someone elses comments from other threads is pretty poor form, and pretty hypocritical for someone claiming others are not positive or constructive.

Look, I don't really care to get into this detracting argument with you. It's juvenile and it will accomplish nothing.

Yes, I used your post, without your name, to help show how raider and raiding feedback is received. I felt that particular post exemplified how raiders are often misinterpreted, marginalized, and spoken for. I wanted to illustrate the tone that even simple feedback or a really good idea might receive.

I never replied to you in those other threads, if but briefly, and I have no personal beef with you. I can apologize for offending you. I am sorry for offending you with my cross post.

Now, this will be my last reply to you about this off topic disagreement, if you want to talk about the thread topic, fantastic, I would love to see what you have to say. Otherwise, I am going to go about my business trying to foster a productive dialogue.

[Jetstream_Fox]

I still don't see why people are crying about this, it's insane, like as if this was the first game to offer two different difficulty levels of the same content. Have any of you even played Diablo? Same game all the way through, change the difficulty and you get better gear drops. Even Metal Gear Solid 5 does this with the Substenance, Extreme and Total Stealth difficulties on certain missions, completing them results in a higher payout and higher skilled soldiers for base raiding. Savage has different mechanics then Normal mode as well, so it's basically like doing Savage Coil and Normal Coil and I haven't heard anyone complain about there being two SCoB difficulties, I mean Savage SCoB didn't even drop gear, only a title and people still did it. Raiding has never been exclusive in this game either, but people act like it always was and should be, I seriously don't understand this whole "Savage should have came first because I'm a raider" mentality either. Honestly more people would raid if T5 didn't leave such a bad taste in people's mouths from bad design. Furthermore raiding for gear is a pointless reason as I've stated that it only slightly boost our stats and ilv, it doesn't exactly make you a good player, knowing your skills is what ultimately lead to clears and make you a great player, as is your attitude towards others. It's like members of this community have only played this game in their entire lives, it's painful almost as painful as blaming a raid on your burn out, when the entire game is depleted and a utter mess thanks to bad planning and developer design ideology. So if you think that locking out story from everyone, the reason we all bought this in the first place is a good idea, you're almost as delusional as Donald Trump.