NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

[Yeldir]

A long time ago in a game known as WoW a dev explained why they spend so much resources on raid content, content they acknowledged very few people who played actively participate in. In short is was to inspire people who didn't raid to want to raid. It was also there reason for very visually distinct raid armor.

They wanted the small %of players who progressively raided motivate those who didn't have the time or skill. They spoke of how in town a raider would have this armor and people walking by would stop and go oh wow that guy is a raider his armor is sop cool I want to raid.

But with time they decided that catering to 5%of the player base wasnt fair and created raid content for every one with different color pallets on the armor vs difficulty.

It amuses me to think that this was the exact time WoW began to go sour. Wanting is a more powerful motivator than having. That a sizable portion of the player base can look at content integral to the current model - be that looking up at savage or down at normal - and declare it worthless is a very bad sign, indeed. It suggests that the model does not motivate adequately.

During the glory days of WoW Vanilla, I never got to clear Naxx - but its existence excited me, and it was a strong motivator to keep playing. I was never offended by it, and never getting there didn't ruin the game for me. The majority of the people I knew didn't clear it, either. They weren't offended by this - it didn't push them from the game. High mountains, scaled or not, keep you climbing if the journey is satisfying.

Giving people what they want killed WoW. It'll kill FFXIV, next. I'm seeing the exact same signs, plain as day.

[Nadirah]

No, a "we know what's fun, you don't, now shut up, pleb" attitude is what killed WoW, and it surfaced right after Wrath.

Accessibility of content was one of the things that made that the game's peak.

Sorry.

[Nadirah]

I still maintain that they should have released Alex normal and then an entirely different, progressive raid instead of savage.

So you want exclusive, completely different content to stroke your ego in a non raid centric game.

How about no?

[Bodicca]

The purpose of Normal Mode is for non-raiders to see the environments created and the story. Creating a new raid would, you know, kinda defeat the purpose of Normal Mode.

I understand your point, however, normal IS part of the gear progression. Raiders aren't burning themselves out on normal because they want to see the environment and story over and over and over again. Its purpose is also gear progression.

No reason to make the same encounter on hard mode. A different raid would have been fine whether everyone got to experience it or not. I don't get this "everyone has to see everything every game has to offer." If non-raiders don't see all the raid environments that's perfectly ok. They're NON-RAIDERS.

[StrejdaTom]

So you want exclusive, completely different content to stroke your ego in a non raid centric game.

How about no?

Wanting completely different content has nothing to do with ego and only casuals seem to use this argument all over again.
What's so hard to understand on the fact that when someone spends lots of time doing something, he maybe wants it to be... entertaining?
How can be raiding entertaining when the requirement to do it is a gear from almost the same encounter with same bosses and arenas? And yeah, having normal Alex gear mixed with ESO is requirement for Alex Savage unless you plan to do it in 2016, which kinda wouldn't make sense.

The only thing I am seeing in this thread are a few elitists asking something impossible and entitled casuals who feel like everything has to be handed out to them because they pay subscription.

Even content for 5% of community is worth doing, no content caters to everyone and having stuff to do for casuals and for hardcore players only expands the community.
You guys don't care for savage and don't mind anything that happens to it, well I do. Coil was the only reason I kept logging a few times a week and Alex Savage would be the same if it wasn't so hard to maintain static with all these people leaving of boredoom. People who feel the same try to figure out how to make hardcore raiding appealing to people again and all you are doing is just being afraid that you might not have 100% of FFXIVs content for you. Everything except savage in this game is completely fine and doable without any difficulties and still, even the savage seems to be thorn in eye for everyone...

I understand your point, however, normal IS part of the gear progression. Raiders aren't burning themselves out on normal because they want to see the environment and story over and over and over again. Its purpose is also gear progression.

No reason to make the same encounter on hard mode. A different raid would have been fine whether everyone got to experience it or not. I don't get this "everyone has to see everything every game has to offer." If non-raiders don't see all the raid environments that's perfectly ok. They're NON-RAIDERS.

For me crafting was always unreachable as raiding is unreachable for some people, but I never was on forums saying there should be less finances going into crafting and more in raiding or anything else like that. Some people really think that the whole game should cater only to them because they are the majority.

How, exactly, would this stroke my ego?

I never did coils, never will. I'll never do savage. And if SE had made a completely different, progressive raid to follow Alex, I most likely would never have done that either. That's my choice. Why should people who enjoy a harder, progressive game experience be required to burn themselves out in the same damn encounter over and over because that's not what I want to do?

Talk about selfish . . .

Glad I have seen someone like this today, faith in community restored.

TL;DR:
Raiders have and always had only one piece of content that was truly made for them and now the content was completely downgraded by the need to farm its another version before entering to the savage (that's a fact, doing savage with fully eso gear having 800 ACC makes completely no sense). Asking for change is apparently selfish. OK.

[Bodicca]

So you want exclusive, completely different content to stroke your ego in a non raid centric game.

How about no?

How, exactly, would this stroke my ego?

I never did coils, never will. I'll never do savage. And if SE had made a completely different, progressive raid to follow Alex, I most likely would never have done that either. That's my choice. Why should people who enjoy a harder, progressive game experience be required to burn themselves out in the same damn encounter over and over because that's not what I want to do?

Talk about selfish . . .

[Dyvid]

Savage encounter should be different from normal in both context and mechanics. Story though should remain the same because this was a key complaint in ARR's Coil. Maybe you should think more about the carrot and less about the stick. What things would make you want to run Savage?

[Bodicca]

It amuses me to think that this was the exact time WoW began to go sour. Wanting is a more powerful motivator than having. That a sizable portion of the player base can look at content integral to the current model - be that looking up at savage or down at normal - and declare it worthless is a very bad sign, indeed. It suggests that the model does not motivate adequately.

During the glory days of WoW Vanilla, I never got to clear Naxx - but its existence excited me, and it was a strong motivator to keep playing. I was never offended by it, and never getting there didn't ruin the game for me. The majority of the people I knew didn't clear it, either. They weren't offended by this - it didn't push them from the game. High mountains, scaled or not, keep you climbing if the journey is satisfying.

Giving people what they want killed WoW. It'll kill FFXIV, next. I'm seeing the exact same signs, plain as day.

WoW also had a TON of things to do other than raid. Not any more.

During its glory days through Wrath, Blizzard succeeded in creating a world with its own culture. That is the sole reason that WoW boasted over 12 million subs at one point. LFR, CRZ and ridiculous accessibility ruined that culture. It's a shame, too, because they "had it." But like you said they threw it away by making things easy for the player - from removing RP items like regents and ammo to removing the community.

RIP WoW.

[Colorful]

I understand your point, however, normal IS part of the gear progression. Raiders aren't burning themselves out on normal because they want to see the environment and story over and over and over again. Its purpose is also gear progression.

No reason to make the same encounter on hard mode. A different raid would have been fine whether everyone got to experience it or not. I don't get this "everyone has to see everything every game has to offer." If non-raiders don't see all the raid environments that's perfectly ok. They're NON-RAIDERS.

Frankly that's just the way it's designed, believe it or not they don't have the money to create content to appeal to everyone every patch cycle. So what do they do in turn? Make it accessible to everyone. It's either that, or release the 24 man raid and 8 man raids every patch cycle which we know to be impossible as they barely manage to put out Void Ark without a 5 month wait. What is your solution to that? Take up crafting? Many people want PvE progression that's not banging your head against a wall, in WoW we have flex/normal which is a little easier than EX primals (speaking from my experience with Siege of Orgrimmar), with FFXIV on even numbered patches it's either raid, or be bored because you have nothing to do aim for. The thing is some people are asking for content to literally be removed from other people, not delayed, no. Removed. That is a selfish mentality, period. What is reasonable is asking for Savage to be released first by a few months, but anything else is clearly selfish and trying to justify that attitude by clouding it as one piece of content is a sorry way to do so. Yes, it is one piece of content, but it is the largest piece of content.

Some people are thinking of it the wrong way, right now it's "I have nothing to do because I've done it in an easier form". Their proposed solution is: "Give me something to do at the expense of everyone else, I don't care if they end up in the same situation as I am now, just do it". I don't see how people are unable to see the hypocrisy.

As I said earlier, release normal 1-2 months later. Problem solved.

[Aniforani]

If crafters also get gear that is exclusive to us that no one else can never aquire without crafting it themselves I'm in full support of this. Welcome to the minority raiders, let me know if you want some ilvl 180 gear, I'll hook you up.