NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

[Malzian]

Now since there some people who want to bring it up in everyone of these threads, let's compare mmos to single player games.
Almost in every single RPG, almost game, there is content after the end of the story. Usually this content is harder than the actually game itself. Most of the time, this content unlocks new skills, the best gear, more lore, and sometimes the true ending of the game. Most of the time, the average player is gonna to fail HARD. These players will either give up on it or get better. Now you don't see those players who gave up complaining about how they couldn't beat the endgame content and how the devs shouldn't put content that they, themselves, couldn't reach. However, according to your logic, since they paid for the game they should have full access to the game.
Yet, why should they have access if they cannot clear it?

What about harder games? Since it always brought up, what about the entries in the Soul's series. According to the PSN trophy log, less than 30% of players have seen the ending of DS2. You don't see people up at arms about that do you?

So let's step into this then and why it's a flawed argument on -either- side...

You can not compare a single player game to an MMO, in no instance is this valid. Anyone can play a single player game for as long or short as they want in whatever free time that they have. It is not beholden to any one else, either from a skill or availability standpoint. The expectation out of an MMO and the very specific demands it places on time are simply unmanageable for some people on the hardest content.

Sometimes it's not a matter of want. Sometimes it's a matter of can't, simply from a design perspective. And the point you are arguing against from the post you quoted was someone simply saying, "Don't lock the kinds of things I currently can get away behind something that will keep me from getting it."

This is going back to people thinking that end game is only for hardcore raiders. No one was complaining that we can't get Savage gear. We know that we aren't to that point, and while we might not be totally satisfied with the difficulty or the inherent content in what we do have. What people are saying is, "Don't take away way little satisfaction we -do- have just because you think it takes away from -your- experience", which... by the way... it doesn't.

[Alex_Lenderson]

Storyline is pretty lame compared to Coil. Other than that I don't see the issue.

[Belhi]

Storyline is pretty lame compared to Coil. Other than that I don't see the issue.

We have only seen the first chapter. The first coil was hardly the most riveting part of coils story either.

[Velox]

Raiders: "We need harder raids. I don't care about gear and titles. I just want to tackle harder content."

SE: "OK we added 2 versions of the raid to accommodate everyone, and easy version and a hard version."

Raiders: "But all the filthy casuals have similar gear and can watch all the cutscenes now."

SE: "I thought you didn't care about that stuff. We gave you harder content. Beating it is reward itself."

Raiders: "F*ck no! If I don't have gear, minions, mounts, titles, and special cutscenes to hold over the heads of casuals and allow me to flaunt my superiority, then there's no point!"

SE: "But you just said that it's not about the material rewards..."
Raiders: "It isn't"

SE: "..."

[Jonditaru]

We have only seen the first chapter. The first coil was hardly the most riveting part of coils story either.

It was for legacy players, because it was pretty an opening to what was believed to have ended at the closing of 1.0

[zcrash970]

snip

Lol I know you shouldn't compare a MMO with a single-player game, but since there are people in this forum that like comparing the two, I might as well use it against them.
I even said laughed at comparing the two, but I'm guess you read over it without noticing it...assuming you even read my post.

There is no can't in video games. It is a matter of want

Some content need to lock behind the hardcore crowd. It gives anything players can work towards.

You are right. Endgame isn't just for the hardcore, just the raid aimed at the hardcore crowd.
Now if you think endgame is only raids, then you have another problem.

I will say it Alexander Normal shouldn't exist. It should be another raid with equal difficulty

Oh about what you said about your and mine satisfaction, yours doesn't affect mine. Even if it did, I could care less just as long as your content isn't redundant

[NFaelivrin]

Savage Alexander sucks because the difficulty spike in A3S is monstrous and seems to exist solely to stop Lucrezia and other groups of that level from repeating what they did in FCOB and destroying the raid tier within the week. They succeeded at this, but its frankly a completely pointless concern and it seems like a lot of the worst design decisions in Heavensward happened solely to slow down the absolute best players in the game. Why does Alexander Savage have a grotesque difficulty spike out of nowhere? So it won't be cleared too fast. Why is crafted gear worse than it has ever been and practically irrelevant? So it can't be used to get past gear checks in Savage too quickly. Why are secondary stats weaker than they have ever been? To help cement crafted gear as irrelevant, by making the secondary stats you can get from materia melds weaker than a straight ilevel increase in all situations besides tank accessories, which are only relevant because fending accessories are poorly designed and you can meld primary stats to accs anyway.

All of this succeeded at their goal of slowing down world first raid clears and has also simultaneously hurt the game's raiding community more than anything since launch, because while FCOB world first happened startlingly fast the majority of the people who raided in 2.X still took several months to clear T13, and this was on the coil tier that was widely agreed to be the easiest. Raiders are a minority of the players of the game, and Lucrezia-tier raiders are a vanishingly small minority of raiders, so designing every single thing related to the one true endgame raid based on an extremely small minority of another minority ends up alienating a huge number of people, particularly when the previous raid was midcore friendly (you'd just progress more slowly than hardcore players) and you only get four fights every six months that require you to even remotely try to play decently.

[Malzian]

Lol I know you shouldn't compare a MMO with a single-player game, but since there are people in this forum that like comparing the two, I might as well use it against them.
I even said laughed at comparing the two, but I'm guess you read over it without noticing it...assuming you even read my post.

There is no can't in video games. It is a matter of want

Some content need to lock behind the hardcore crowd. It gives anything players can work towards.

You are right. Endgame isn't just for the hardcore, just the raid aimed at the hardcore crowd.
Now if you think endgame is only raids, then you have another problem.

I will say it Alexander Normal shouldn't exist. It should be another raid with equal difficulty

Oh about what you said about your and mine satisfaction, yours doesn't affect mine. Even if it did, I could care less just as long as your content isn't redundant

There is a can't in video games. I can't play games at work, and when I come home I often have more work to do (as a teacher I end up doing a ton of grading at night after I get home) in addition to making myself dinner and cleaning my house before getting to bed in a timely manner so I can be up in the morning. Due to my schedule I can't spend an hour waiting for a raid group to form, even a static because life happens. And then I can't spend two hours raiding if I want to be up in the morning so I can keep my job, my apartment and the little free time i do get to spend playing games. Just because other people may have a luxury of time does not mean that we all do.

And the "I don't care about your satisfaction" attitude is what makes these debates pointless and endless.

[Spellbinder]

Raiders: "We need harder raids. I don't care about gear and titles. I just want to tackle harder content."

SE: "OK we added a hard version of Binding Coil. The only new reward for it is a title, but we hope you enjoy the challenge.

Raiders: "But this is so hard! We really should at least get some sort of gear reward if we're going to do something this hard."

SE: "I thought you didn't care about that stuff. We gave you harder content. Beating it is reward itself."

Raiders: "F*ck no!"

SE: O-Okay... For Alexander, we've made the regular version a little easier to ensure more players can see the story. For the harder version, we've added gear and a special mount.

Raiders: What is this!? My gear is only marginally better, and the only difference is dye!?!? If I don't have more special gear, titles, and special cutscenes to hold over the heads of casuals and allow me to flaunt my superiority, then there's no point! You have to get rid of the normal mode!!!"

SE: "But during the 2.x series, you just said that it's not about the material rewards..."

Raiders: "It isn't"

SE: "..."

Adjusted that a bit for you.

[Elazu]

Snip

It's funny how in these threads you always see the casuals posting immature stuff like this while the oh so evil raiders are having actual discussions on how to fix aspects the game.

What a lot of non-raiders ignore is that you are not entitled to see every content the game has to offer if you don't work for it. If you don't beat the hardest content in the game, you don't deserve to have the best gear and should not see the story/get the glamour/mounts/whatever, simple as that. And before someone says "but I pay 15 bucks a month so I am entitled to have all the things you filthy elitist swine!!!!" - Nope. You pay to get access to play on SE's servers.


99% of the game has always been and still is casual content, and there are actually people in here that have the audacity to ask for the removal of that 1% of content that is made for the hardcore crowd and in the same sentence, call raiders egoistic because they'd like to have that 1% of the game for themselves and not ruined by the implementation of something like a normal mode. What a joke.