I don't understand the power of the Dark Knights

[Fenral]

1st, read up on Persona 4 and Jungian Psychology.

God bless you, 21st century, for making sentences like this possible.

That said, the Dark Knight story does borrow certain specific themes from Persona 4's rather specific expression of Jungian psychology. Blah blah repressed aspects of the psyche blah. The Lore subforum's resident Dark Nut will probably be along shortly to clear up my secondhand information.

[Cilia]

The Lore subforum's resident Dark Nut will probably be along shortly to clear up my secondhand information.

What? Did somebody call for me?

J/k, but I'da got here sooner if I weren't at werk.

While the exact mechanics of the power of darkness, as used by Dark Knights, are not well explained, it's not just "negative" or "dark" emotions that fuel the Dark Knight's powers. As Sidurgu will explain if you talk to him and ask "What is a Dark Knight?," everyone has a tiny, healthy bit of void in them, and this is where the Dark Knight's powers come from. That tiny void is where all your repressed emotions go, not just the bad ones, and is what makes up "Fray" as you know him / her. This is further expanded upon by the DRK 58 quest, where the moogles have to push Sidurgu towards acknowledging his love for Rielle that he had been denying. In other words, using the power of darkness requires complete mastery of oneself, and by extension complete acceptance of oneself. That's why the power of darkness is so dangerous - if you're dishonest with yourself your dark side (more like psychological shadow) will manifest and forcibly try to make you pursue the desires you deny. In the Warrior of Light's case, this desire is freedom from Hydaelyn's yoke.

In other words, the power of darkness is using one's repressed emotions to reach into that "tiny void" in everyone and draw power out of it. Very dangerous because denying yourself will lead to insanity, and overuse of the power of darkness could kill you. So while anyone could theoretically become a Dark Knight, the self-acceptance is probably the tricky bit that a lot of hopefuls fail, leading to their deaths; the Warrior of Light might be a prodigy Dark Knight like s/he is with every other class, but even s/he comes within a hair's breadth of falling into darkness. (Plus it's a somewhat secret art.)

Exactly where that "tiny bit of void" comes from is, well, the driving question. It could be connected to Zodiark, or it could simply be a natural part of mortal existence. We don't really know, and unless Dark Knights get focused on in an expansion like Dragoons were in Heavensward, we probably never will. Rest assured, though, that there are no demonic contracts involved, and unless a certain theory of mine is correct, it has nothing to do with the Ascians or Zodiark.

[Frederick22]

snip

We will just have to wait until 4.0 to see how the Dark Knight job quests continue

[Cilia]

Then remember that the "Darkness" it's referring to is "Spiritual Darkness" aka your character's inner bad guy.

Not totally accurate. From a psychological perspective, if what / who you're referring to is the "Fray" portion of the Warrior of Light's psyche, s/he is far from a "bad guy." "Fray," like the characters' shadows from the Persona franchise, represents everything the Warrior of Light is but denies: that s/he often fights just for a sporting battle and to test his/her abilities, that s/he hates being roped into helping idiots who could have helped themselves, that s/he hates being pestered into helping others do their jobs, and most importantly that s/he is in great emotional pain from everything during 2.x.

Remember, even in Persona 4 the characters' shadows aren't evil per sé - just a representation of their repressed emotions and desires. The only character whose shadow is truly evil is the main villain, and as an attempted rapist and murderer, that's hardly surprising. "Fray," or your spiritual darkness, is just your emotions and desires running wild, with no mask of society to keep him/her in check. The worst s/he does is beat up some soldiers at Whitebrim Front to stop you from being executed (since, y'know, Ishgardian justice is "die as an innocent or die because you're guilty"). You would sacrifice everything to protect the world; "Fray" would sacrifice the world to protect you and make you happy.

The trick to understanding the power of darkness is the ability to recognize and accept that "Fray," or your spiritual darkness, is not your evil impulses. It's not wrong, or bad, or evil. It just is - it is you, all of you. That strength of heart required to face oneself is why so many probably fail and die in the process of becoming a Dark Knight, and what happened to the Warrior of Light was probably a big mishap that went on far longer than it should have.

... not so simple, I know. Still, it's better than having "Fray" go on about how s/he wanted to have sex with Minfilia and/or Thancred, and now s/he can't because they're MIA.

We will just have to wait until 4.0 to see how the Dark Knight job quests continue

Maybe. If you talk to Sidurgu again and ask how he and Rielle are doing, the Warrior of Light will suggest that he train Rielle in the dark arts - a suggestion he is flustered by, but is open to if it's what she wants. So it sounds like we might be training Rielle...

Could be a red herring, but still.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Snip

I know, Jungian Psychology is weird, The Jungian Shadow is simply everything that we don't show in public. Thus the "True Self" conniption Fray was having. But you're right, The Shadow it's self is neither good nor evil it is simply the reverse of the person that it's a part of. if you're quiet and shy in public then your shadow is flamboyant and outgoing, if you're violent and fearless in public than your shadow is a pacifist and a coward. To rap it all in one phrase, The Shadow (And By Extension "Fray") is the opposite side of the coin that is the person in question. If the Warrior of Light is Heads then Fray is Tails.

[Soldowner]

You're right at some points, and wrong at others. A shadow is not your opposite. It's what you refuse to show entirely. A part of you that you don't accept because, at times, it's just not right to accept it, or you don't want to. If you're quiet and shy at heart, you're still quiet and shy. Your shadow won't be outgoing, because that's nto what you are. If you were hiding the fact that you loved being outspoken because society placed on you the limitation of being meek, then yes, your shadow would be loud and vibrant like you want to be, but can't.

[FaerieAura]

That strength of heart required to face oneself

I see what you did there. Heck, when I first saw the cutscene for Our Answer, I was floored by the similarities.

As others have said, the darkness isn't necessarily evil. It's not even necessarily bad. It is similarly linked to emotions that Warriors have in battle, but with one key difference. Warriors become so enraged in battle that they literally have to fight their emotions to keep from going uncontrollably berserk and becoming the monster they seek to destroy. Dark Knights' power doesn't just stem from the love and thrill of battle, it stems from their overall outlook on life - being tired of seeing others hurt but not being able to do anything about it, or conversely in our character's case, always being expected to do something about it. The desire to break free from the rules and just do what you FEEL is right, rather than what others tell you is right. They use this desire to literally manifest the power of their own darker emotions, but maintain control of them in service to the things they actually want to achieve. It's... weird. But it works.


Put another, still psychological way:
Id: Dark Knight's desire to do what they feel is right
Ego: Dark Knight
Superego: Expectations and roles placed on Dark Knight by society and themselves

The Dark Knight has to balance these, and literally draws power from the friction generated by being between the two. They're the hybrid car of tanks.

[Belhi]

I see what you did there. Heck, when I first saw the cutscene for Our Answer, I was floored by the similarities.

As others have said, the darkness isn't necessarily evil. It's not even necessarily bad. It is similarly linked toemotions that Warriors have in battle, but with one key difference. Warriors become so enraged in battle that they literally have to fight their emotions to keep from going uncontrollably berserk and becoming the monster they seek to destroy. Dark Knights' power doesn't just stem from the love and thrill of battle, it stems from their overall outlook on life - being tired of seeing others hurt but not being able to do anything about it, or conversely in our character's case, always being expected to do something about it. The desire to break free from the rules and just do what you FEEL is right, rather than what others tell you is right. They use this desire to literally manifest the power of their own darker emotions, but maintain control of them in service to the things they actually want to achieve. It's... weird. But it works.


Put another, still psychological way:
Id: Dark Knight's desire to do what they feel is right
Ego: Dark Knight
Superego: Expectations and roles placed on Dark Knight by society and themselves

The Dark Knight has to balance these, and literally draws power from the friction generated by being between the two. They're the hybrid car of tanks.

I got the impression the nature of the Inner Beast was more of a person's primal nature. Its not what a person represses but rather person's desires instinctively played out. It responds to danger and challenges but also can go all mother bear when things the person care for are threatened. Its like a wild animal. Not evil but instinctive.

The 50+ WAR story gets into this.

[xxvaynxx]

Still, it's better than having "Fray" go on about how s/he wanted to have sex with Minfilia and/or Thancred, and now s/he can't because they're MIA.

Fray talked about having sex with Minfilia and Thancred? O_O

[Cilia]

Fray talked about having sex with Minfilia and Thancred? O_O

Of course not. It was a psychology joke.

Now, tell me about your mother...