Looks like PLDs are clearing A4s.

[Ercapote]

So bring a NIN, it'll only do a tiny bit less DPS than a group with a WAR. MCH/BRD needs a DRG to do max DPS, BLM/SMN needs a BRD. Melee can get extra DPS from a MCH. Plenty of group compositions need specific jobs to do max DPS, it's not just tanks.

this is not the case DPS has tons of variation, there are 7 DPS not the same as 3 tanks, with dps you will get more benefit if you bring other complementary dps that's true but with only 3 choices of tanks 1 being less than the other 2 just makes a clear vision of imbalance classes making 1 class not being optimal when you can pick the other 2, dps don't have this issue, in fact all dps are pretty well balance and regarthless of how you make your composition along as you have your proper melee,range,caster comp you can't go wrong... again this is not the situation with tanks with only 2 spot and 3 tank WAR being an already secure spot giving then only 1 spot for 2 classes now add that 1 of those 2 classes perform better than the other then get 1 class that will get push out over time if this imbalance is not fixed, and It shouldn't be like that, one class cannot out cast 2 other classes, they all should be able to be paired with any composition and anyone with a sane mind will never replace a war with a pld or a drk...

this also applies to astro.


EDIT: @AIRSWIMMER made and excellent point to that just add to this mess...

[Kyne_Lyons]

PLD certainly isn't optimal in terms of mitigation for this floor, but it's by no means a massive detriment.

This is why not one Paladin was able to clear without all DPS in full i210 at a dead minimum, right?

[SpookyGhost]

This is why not one Paladin was able to clear without all DPS in full i210 at a dead minimum, right?

ZZZzzzzzzzzz

e: I guess I'll answer, just to give this post some meaning. Mitigation does not somehow revolve around DPS having better gear in A4S. You get the same mechanics unless you are beating way ahead of enrage, which no one is or has been. The problem was that DRK was, for all intents and purposes, better than PLD for progressing in A4S - it had better damage and better mitigation, thus it was brought for every clear attempt by any group who had a PLD willing to switch to DRK (which was most that were on A4S).

Full i210 is also the maximum possible. I assume that was a joke, but the hyperbole is getting ridiculous.

[Kyne_Lyons]

ZZZzzzzzzzzz

Thanks for your well constructed and thoughtful post, as usual.

Full i210 is also the maximum possible. I assume that was a joke, but the hyperbole is getting ridiculous.

How is it hyperbole when Paladin groups have to have DPS in best-in-slot sans weapons to beat A4S? It can't be hyperbole when it's fact, do you understand this?

[Alphras]

Aaaaaaaaand we have another thread that gets derated by saltiness and hyperboles.

[Kyne_Lyons]

It sounds stupid because it is stupid, yes, you're getting it now. One of the first Paladin kills linked had the Paladin finish the fight at 811 DPS and his group used AST and NIN. Currently, I'm maintaining that on DRK, with extremely liberal usage of Grit throughout A4S and not really breaking a sweat with no AST and no NIN. In that kill video, the Paladin was Sword Oath for 80% of the fight, whereas I use Grit simply because it's safer with Reducible Complexity/Hydrothermal Missile damage lining up with each other.

Nothing changed in my play from when I was a Paladin, and I had less gear when I started as a Dark Knight than I do now yet my DPS went up significantly. The damage difference is probably about ~150 dps under equivalent circumstances for A4S, and that's the raid DPS difference of several weeks of drops. I don't know how this isn't adding up to you, maybe because you don't actually raid.

[Rocond]

From what I can observe in videos and the stream the tanks have had to stay in their DPS stances for more than 80% of the encounter.

I just beat A4S on pld the other night and while I did spend some time in Sword Oath, I don't think it was 80%. I spent a lot of the fight in Shield Oath including the entire last phase. Pld just wasn't viable for World First clears and that doesn't even impact the majority of the population. This far into the gear grind any good group can beat this with a pld.

http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#bos...l&spec=Paladin

Four in total so far, probably a bit more, unless every successful PLD has logged (maybe? Not sure).

There are probably a lot more. I've never even heard of this site and cleared on pld.

[Kemas]

I still find it humorous that people are soo resistant to potential PLD changes when these PLD kills just began surfacing this week. People (myself included) are gearing their second jobs with esoteric gear so of course PLD is viable now. Also- "dps dps blah blah blah" still ignoring the raid wide damage reduction components of both war and drk which are arguably essential in any self respecting raid progression group.

[Isius]

...I don't get the meaning of this thread, or what it is suppose to prove. Praise PLDs that they can do A4S and show we were wrong saying PLD is behind to the other two tanks in Alex Sav, or show that Warrior is always mandatory in a raid group, or to just show PLDs are just behind the curve between the other two tanks, and are only clearing now. PLDs yes have been clearing since like end of last week as far as I know of, but that is the thing. They are heavily "geared" for the fight now with a lot of thier slots with ilvl210 gear minus weapon and whatever.

Basically it's the same deal with Warriors in 2.0...yes they could beat T5 pre 2.1, but they had to be overgeared for the fight in ilvl90 gear, but the encounter will still remain harder versus bring a different class. PLD still needs adjustments and that is just the reality of the situtation.

[Giantbane]

I distinctly remember there was a group that beat T5 with double WAR shortly before the 2.1 buffs. It didn't mean PLD vs. WAR was balanced, and WAR was appropriately adjusted in 2.1.