DRG rant, is it really only just me? (Melee DPS balance).

[Leonus]

As a dragoon main from 2.0 to 2.4, and a nin main onwards, with all leveled to 50 by 2.4, i disagree, and say that because of dragoons strict, straightforward rotation, that it is the easiest of the three to master, and that it has very little variation even now at 60. the strictness of dragoon optimal rotation is exactly why it will always be easiest to learn and master. you will never NOT know what your next move is unless its on your 4th tier random proc, and even then.. you either go flank or rear. dragoon is painfully easy, especially once learned

I also played all 3 - Nin was mad easy (mained it all the way till HW), and mnk only lets you do certain moves after each one (easily knowable which one is coming up based on timers). Lets be real, these "which job is harder to master than the next" is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE.

I found drg from 2.0-2.4 so fustrating that i left the job to play nin (which i found easier and more fun at the time). I never mained mnk too seriously because i found it far to easy (for me, hardest part was GL, which as long as you continued your rotation, you didn't drop unless fight mechanics dictated it.)

[Kaisersoke]

its not really all that subjective at all. id even say its fairly objective to the point where its blatantly obvious which one has more to pay attention to, but if you thought dragoon was frustrating and difficult in 2.0 i feel really sorry for you now. Your Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize are both on the same timer, so you really only need to pay attention to one, your chaos thrust had just enough time for you to full thrust twice before you had to reapplied, and that was pretty much all you had to worry about, its opener was the only semi difficult thing about dragoon, and mastering it was fairly easy with a little practice. monk always had several different timers, and the worry to keep GL3, and ninjas had to manage mudra correctly, which alone requires far more technical precision than anything dragoon had at 2.4, along with juggling finishers depending on if you had a warrior, and had two dots that did not have equal timers. its a different story now in 3.0, but it was very clear which melee had the most straight forward job back then, and i cant fathom how you even got dragoon to 60 if you legit believe it was hard at 50.

id like to note, that dragoon is a lot harder to master now in 3.0. still fairly simple to grasp though, and with practice, its still pretty straightforward.

[RocheKat]

MNKs always top DPS from start til end despite being easier to master and still have the best defensive utility. NINs have the best offensive utility all around, but suffer from lacking DPS. DRGs master nothing, they lost their "Top AoE DPS (useless niche)" to MNKs, and have inferior offensive utility to NINs.

When will SE stop babying MNKs?

Good stuff right here... proof is in the fact monks are everywhere... they are in every major raid group... and of course every monk I see in every group is awesome and things just explode when they are around.

[Leonus]

its not really all that subjective at all. id even say its fairly objective to the point where its blatantly obvious which one has more to pay attention to, but if you thought dragoon was frustrating and difficult in 2.0 i feel really sorry for you now.

Don't feel sorry for me, considering i put out some pretty damn good numbers.

Your Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize are both on the same timer, so you really only need to pay attention to one, your chaos thrust had just enough time for you to full thrust twice before you had to reapplied, and that was pretty much all you had to worry about, its opener was the only semi difficult thing about dragoon, and mastering it was fairly easy with a little practice. monk always had several different timers, and the worry to keep GL3..

Ok, Mnk had Dragon kick and Demolish, both on relatively short timers, and ToD which is 30 seconds. The former two you only had to glance at and it you knew when to reapply it. ToD is 30 seconds.... doesn't even interrupt your combo and you can reapply it as it falls off. GL was never a real worry as long as you maximized uptime and just continued your combo, maintaining it wasn't something you have to actively think about at all times as something extra, it's literally just do your mnk thing.

and ninjas had to manage mudra correctly, which alone requires far more technical precision than anything dragoon had at 2.4

You just made mudras into something they really aren't. Mudras were never hard, did you have to press them accurately? After a while, It's muscle memory and you got 20 seconds to prep for the next 2-3 button combo, even less so now that you don't have to throw in Huton but every now and again due to armor crush. The only thing making mudras hard is lag, that's it (and possibly a fat finger).

along with juggling finishers depending on if you had a warrior, and had two dots that did not have equal timers.

If you had a war, it was one LESS thing you had to worry about, even if you had a war, all you would do is alternate between AE and DE as timers saw fit. Just like drg, the timers lined up pretty good, excluding mutilate at times. Nin is pretty straight forward itself, only exception was mudras which wasn't a hard concept and you had a long time to mentally prep for the next cast.

its a different story now in 3.0, but it was very clear which melee had the most straight forward job back then, and i cant fathom how you even got dragoon to 60 if you legit believe it was hard at 50.

Right here, you just sound like an asshole, but that's on you.

You think mnk and nin are harder, that's also on you, both of these jobs are easy to grasp.

and i cant fathom how you even got dragoon to 60 if you legit believe it was hard at 50.

Until the fixes drg got, with the wackass not getting your positional buff at all when the boss or tank would randomly turn the mob and have to restart your combo while loosing dps, it was very fustrating to me. Considering i pride myself on my numbers, i'm very competitive and don't like to be outdone regardless of who i'm playing with.

Guess what i found easier and more fun after a new job was released (without boring me like mnk did)? That's right! Ninja! I did not go back to drg until HW because i found the interaction with Blood of the Dragon to be more challenging/fun than SE dumbing down mudras to bascially be Raiton/Suiton and having armor crush to replace AE when your Huton buff gets low (and armor crush looks stupid). I still play nin, but i now main drg.

[Greyfrost]

I'm playing both DRG/NIN, although I'm gonna say my main is DRG>BLM.

I find NIN is more... challenging? sequence-wise, but this may be caused because I played DRG right from the start until the end of Heavensward, so it's pretty much dead-set muscle memory. The only "Challenge" I get from DRG was managing whether RNG will give me Wheeling Thrust or Fang and Claw, and double-weaving in the opener, because of high ping.

And since Phle/CT/HT/Dis timers all line up, I only need to know where I am in the rotation and when I'm gonna reapply it.

But that's because people have done the math and extensive research and found the best possible combination.

Meanwhile on NIN it's pretty... free? if X skill is <xx seconds, use x, etc. Mudra lag is also making this hard, despite you still auto-attacking.

All in all, everything's easy when you have the muscle memory for it, the only problem would be whether your job that you're playing can respond to ever-changing situation.
But then again, mechanics are also one of the planned difficulties, so you can plan out first, and move accordingly.

[Kaisersoke]

ill just be done responding to you, after complaining about the positional requirement for the buff, i honestly dont even need to argue any more, especially when you complain about things getting dumbed down