i got a question for you dps..

[RiceisNice]

Those skills won't be up for every pull. As a machinist, I'd be concerned with the tank if I'm ripping aggro off the first target you use your ranged pull with (or any other mobs peel off and go straight for the healer or my bishop) since a ranged pull + AoE enmnity (or straight AoE even) is more than enough to ensure that a class won't pull off you, unless it's a BLM using their firestarter or bursting out of the gate with a fire IV.

The rare occasions would be massive bursts from the likes of BRD, MCH or SMN, but they have incredible wind up time that by the time it does happen, you have more than enough aggro to not lose it unless you weren't using your enmity combo. But if you're immediately losing aggro to those classes right off the bat on trash mobs (and they aren't popping cooldowns), something is wrong on your end.

That being said...

way to assume there.. i'm almost always in full tanking gear and stance.. nice example is this brd who decided to keep unloading into ultros at the start of the fight and since he dropped an aoe on me early i didn't have enuf time to properly establish threat.. i call him out on this and his response boiled down to "lol u lost aggro to a bard?" when i didn't even get a chance to use a full enmity combo yet

I'm wondering how you're dodging the AoEs if you didn't have enough time to even do a full enmity combo. I rarely ever have fights that tanks lose aggro to me immediately (and I attack on pull) unless they're undergeared (and by this, I mean they don't even have their law weapon in an expert dungeon), nor do I lose aggro on my dork knight (and I tank bosses without grit)

[Leonus]

stuff

Quelling strikes doesn't drop enmity (pretty sure), just limits the amount you generate. Not going to be up for every pull, plus a lot of the good bards, or whoever else uses this pop it in the beginning of a pull so they can hit a but harder.

Drgs elusive jump is up once every 3 min. It moves you away from a mob, into who knows what behind you. Not only that, but using it, you loose a (possible) gap closer or an emnity reduction tool for when you really need it. What's worse is when you do use it and end up tanking anyway. When that happens, I just don't trust the tank anymore.

[Aiselia]

If it's happening on trash mobs, Quelling Strikes has a 2 minute cooldown and Elusive Jump a 3 minute cooldown. If they're doing enough DPS to rip it off you (assuming that you're not doing just really low enmity), I'd assume the fights aren't lasting that long, so even if they use it on one fight, it won't be back for the next.

If it's only on bosses, unless they're significantly overgearing you, there shouldn't really be a reason that you don't have time to gain enough enmity before they get stuck in unless they're literally hitting it before you.

But when you say you're wearing "tank gear", do you mean you're wearing all Vit accessories? That's the only "tank gear" you really get to choose on because your tank won't be able to wear DRG/MNK/NIN/whatever gear (past a certain point, I'm assuming you're not talking about pre-50 here because you mention Ultros).

If you're having trouble with enmity, Vit accessories won't do anything to help, although it'd be fabulous if they actually reworked enmity generation for tanks to increase with the more vit they have.

[randysquirrel]

Simple.
Any half-decent dps will know when they are going to be bursting more damage, generally in opener, and should throw in quelling before hand. note HALF-DECENT. a lot of what you find in df, are not. Throw in the fact that quelling doesn't actively appear to do anything, a lot of people don't even know what it is (it doesn't increase your numbers etc). I wouldn't say it's common, but I've run into people that are completely oblivious to any moves that don't openly benefit themselves (eg Goad, E4AE, Apoc, Quelling etc)


then again, if you're pulling trash in small groups, you have to be prepared that quelling won't be up for every pull. i'll use it whenever I can, but those fire IVs can hit hard, is annoying when I moaned at for not using quelling and pulling hate, and then I'm like "yeah I used it on the last pack of three mobs you pulled"

[Gamer3427]

As a MCH, due to the usefulness of the combination of LNC and ARC, I don't have room to have Quelling Strikes on my cross class list. I have Raging Strikes, Blood for Blood, Invigorate, Hawk's Eye, and Feint. Of those, the only one I could consider taking off is Feint, and even that has incredible usefulness when I have Gauss Barrel active due to the fact that it ignores the cast time said skill causes, while still keeping the damage boost. Invigorate on the other hand is a necessity if I want to maintain AoE damage for a long period of time when in a group that wants a quick run. Also, as much as I love my MCH, and despite the fact that I'm frequently out DPSing other classes in DF runs due to lack of skill/not trying on their parts, if you're having the aggro taken from you as a tank by a BRD or MCH then you're doing something wrong, unless they're completely attacking a target the rest of the group isn't focused on, in which case let them die. Particularly with MCH, where part of our DPS aggro is taken by our turret. I know this thread was partly directed at classes like SMN, DRG, and BLM who can cross class with ARC, but the fact that you felt the need to include BRD in the opening of your rant is a bit worrying.....

[Meow9000]

If you're having aggro problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but my damage ain't one

And I'm not gonna waste the ogcd to pop Quelling strikes to fix that unless you're tanking in your dps stance

#gitgud

[Meow9000]

Also DRG cross classes with MRS and PUG not ARC lol silly of

[Gamer3427]

Also DRG cross classes with MRS and PUG not ARC lol silly of

In regards to the OP's post, I'll defend them in that they while they worded it poorly, they were likely referring to Elusive Jump when mentioning DRG, rather than cross classed Quelling Strikes.....

In regards to me mentioning it as a cross class at the end of my post above, that was just me being stupid and not remembering that they cross with PUG and MRD, which I should have since I actually leveled DRG to 50.....

[ShadowYomi]

Tbh as a monk it depends on how I feel atm. Depending on the situation I will use fist of earth instead of fire if they still can't keep hate I cut back on certain buffs. If that doesn't work I may consider just focusing on burning the target full throttle or switching accessories. It is really bad in those dungeons where I can't get to Coeurl form before I become the tank.

[Aomine1992]

Well as a DRG I just wait like a couple seconds before I attack but only with PLDs they loose Emity almost immediately and elusive jump only helps so much...but with WAR and DRK I never see this as an issue...so point being I never really see this as an issue unless roulettes put me in beginner dungeons.