Moment of Truth: How do you really feel

[captainpicard]

1. How do you feel about the patch frequency?
2. How do you feel about the changes themselves?
3. How do you feel this game will fair against current upcoming titles?
4. Do you think this game will ever exceed niche popularity?
5. Do you think the changes are in the right or wrong direction?
6. Do you think the they have focused on the most important things historically with patches or should the focus have been elsewhere?

[Rau]

1. How do you feel about the patch frequency?
2. How do you feel about the changes themselves?
3. How do you feel this game will fair against current upcoming titles?
4. Do you think this game will ever exceed niche popularity?
5. Do you think the changes are in the right or wrong direction?
6. Do you think the they have focused on the most important things historically with patches or should the focus have been elsewhere?

1. Slow, but expected.
2. Uncertain. Clearly defined path, instead of vague timelines and "we have chocobos."
3. Not very well, probably.
4. Doubt it.
5. Right. I feel like Yoshida is a bit too much of an idealist, but I'm willing to get behind him.
6. Baby steps. I'd prefer them to make bigger sweeping changes, but I know they already said the change will be gradual.

[captainpicard]

1. How do you feel about the patch frequency?
2. How do you feel about the changes themselves?
3. How do you feel this game will fair against current upcoming titles?
4. Do you think this game will ever exceed niche popularity?
5. Do you think the changes are in the right or wrong direction?
6. Do you think the they have focused on the most important things historically with patches or should the focus have been elsewhere?

1. Incredibly slow when compared to many other games. Although I am not a fan of Rift, I did play it when it launched and they were patching things in record time. It was a good example of how fast changes, bug fixes, and so on can happen with the correct team of people in place.

2. Some of the changes have been obvious wins, some of them questionable. Overall at this point, looking back of the history of implemented changes, it feels to me like there is no clear cut direction anymore. Feels more like they are making it up as they go without a real clear picture of what the finish line looks like. I understand they have posted an extensive list of planned changes, but they do not feel cohesive to me, i.e. I don't feel like the planned changes result in a well thought out game.

3. Given the bad PR, the current population with it free to play, and the patch rate, that by the time this game is even close to being competitive with a current generation title as far as interface, content, and so on, that it will be 2 to 3 generations behind the curve. It already feels behind the current generation in almost every way except for character models.

4. I don't expect this game to ever be as successful as FFXI, and it is for the most part a niche game. I do not think this game will enjoy a very long life span, I just don't think it is sustainable. I imagine if SE ever does move it to a subscription model, that it will close within one year of that time.

5. The changes overall feel like the wrong direction for me personally, but I think many people like what the developers are doing with the game. I am still looking for the fun factor myself, as none of the current content, or original systems are particularly engaging for me.

6. I think their focus has been very misplaced throughout the entire life of the game when it comes to what they have changed. It definitely feels like the game was in ICU when it was released, and everything they have done up to this point has been emergency surgery just to keep it going. None of the changes that have been made feel fleshed out and none of the core issues have really been resolved. The client/server interface, user interface, and general lack of basic mmorpg features should have been addressed first. This is my view. It may differ from yours.

[Punainen]

1. Incredibly slow when compared to many other games. Although I am not a fan of Rift, I did play it when it launched and they were patching things in record time. It was a good example of how fast changes, bug fixes, and so on can happen with the correct team of people in place.

2. Some of the changes have been obvious wins, some of them questionable. Overall at this point, looking back of the history of implemented changes, it feels to me like there is no clear cut direction anymore. Feels more like they are making it up as they go without a real clear picture of what the finish line looks like. I understand they have posted an extensive list of planned changes, but they do not feel cohesive to me, i.e. I don't feel like the planned changes result in a well thought out game.

3. Given the bad PR, the current population with it free to play, and the patch rate, that by the time this game is even close to being competitive with a current generation title as far as interface, content, and so on, that it will be 2 to 3 generations behind the curve. It already feels behind the current generation in almost every way except for character models.

4. I don't expect this game to ever be as successful as FFXI, and it is for the most part a niche game. I do not think this game will enjoy a very long life span, I just don't think it is sustainable. I imagine if SE ever does move it to a subscription model, that it will close within one year of that time.

5. The changes overall feel like the wrong direction for me personally, but I think many people like what the developers are doing with the game. I am still looking for the fun factor myself, as none of the current content, or original systems are particularly engaging for me.

6. I think their focus has been very misplaced throughout the entire life of the game when it comes to what they have changed. It definitely feels like the game was in ICU when it was released, and everything they have done up to this point has been emergency surgery just to keep it going. None of the changes that have been made feel fleshed out and none of the core issues have really been resolved. The client/server interface, user interface, and general lack of basic mmorpg features should have been addressed first. This is my view. It may differ from yours.

This is my opinion as well. :/

[AmyRae]

1. Incredibly slow when compared to many other games. Although I am not a fan of Rift, I did play it when it launched and they were patching things in record time. It was a good example of how fast changes, bug fixes, and so on can happen with the correct team of people in place.

2. Some of the changes have been obvious wins, some of them questionable. Overall at this point, looking back of the history of implemented changes, it feels to me like there is no clear cut direction anymore. Feels more like they are making it up as they go without a real clear picture of what the finish line looks like. I understand they have posted an extensive list of planned changes, but they do not feel cohesive to me, i.e. I don't feel like the planned changes result in a well thought out game.

3. Given the bad PR, the current population with it free to play, and the patch rate, that by the time this game is even close to being competitive with a current generation title as far as interface, content, and so on, that it will be 2 to 3 generations behind the curve. It already feels behind the current generation in almost every way except for character models.

4. I don't expect this game to ever be as successful as FFXI, and it is for the most part a niche game. I do not think this game will enjoy a very long life span, I just don't think it is sustainable. I imagine if SE ever does move it to a subscription model, that it will close within one year of that time.

5. The changes overall feel like the wrong direction for me personally, but I think many people like what the developers are doing with the game. I am still looking for the fun factor myself, as none of the current content, or original systems are particularly engaging for me.

6. I think their focus has been very misplaced throughout the entire life of the game when it comes to what they have changed. It definitely feels like the game was in ICU when it was released, and everything they have done up to this point has been emergency surgery just to keep it going. None of the changes that have been made feel fleshed out and none of the core issues have really been resolved. The client/server interface, user interface, and general lack of basic mmorpg features should have been addressed first. This is my view. It may differ from yours.

I won't answer all 6 questions, but I will comment on your self-response.

FFXIV couldn't make enough money in its launched state. Option A would have been to cut the losses and let FFXIV die a dishonorable death. Option B would be to give it one last chance with a revamp that was good enough to haul in a substantial PS3 crowd.

They chose Option B.

But Option B is going to take time. It took them 5 years to make FFXIV in the first place. A "rebooted" FFXIV was certainly going to require more time than a couple of weeks or even months to get right.

Comparing the rate of patches to what they produce in a game like Rift is not a fair comparison. Rift doesn't have to remake itself from the ground up. Their initial formula was successful enough that all they have to do is build upon it or make minor tweaks.

FFXIV is still working on the fundamentals of player combat, progression, balance, as well as further expanding on the world with new content. The workload is substantially greater; the development concerns go deep into the roots of the game. They have to repair the foundations of the game while still building on top of it (and with no margin for error... they screw this up, it's over).

You don't pay a subscription for this game for a reason. It's not worth subscribing to and they know it. If you can't accept that the game is deeply under construction, you're perfectly within your rights to pick up something else you'd enjoy better. That said, I don't know what it is the development team could do better to improve upon a money-losing game any better than they've been trying to. There's no guarantee of success, but it's a bold attempt, and hopefully one worth watching to its conclusion.

[Azurymber]

I won't answer all 6 questions, but I will comment on your self-response.

FFXIV couldn't make enough money in its launched state. Option A would have been to cut the losses and let FFXIV die a dishonorable death. Option B would be to give it one last chance with a revamp that was good enough to haul in a substantial PS3 crowd.

They chose Option B.

But Option B is going to take time. It took them 5 years to make FFXIV in the first place. A "rebooted" FFXIV was certainly going to require more time than a couple of weeks or even months to get right.

Comparing the rate of patches to what they produce in a game like Rift is not a fair comparison. Rift doesn't have to remake itself from the ground up. Their initial formula was successful enough that all they have to do is build upon it or make minor tweaks.

FFXIV is still working on the fundamentals of player combat, progression, balance, as well as further expanding on the world with new content. The workload is substantially greater; the development concerns go deep into the roots of the game. They have to repair the foundations of the game while still building on top of it (and with no margin for error... they screw this up, it's over).

You don't pay a subscription for this game for a reason. It's not worth subscribing to and they know it. If you can't accept that the game is deeply under construction, you're perfectly within your rights to pick up something else you'd enjoy better. That said, I don't know what it is the development team could do better to improve upon a money-losing game any better than they've been trying to. There's no guarantee of success, but it's a bold attempt, and hopefully one worth watching to its conclusion.

I'm betting if this was Bioware fixing up the game, it would be a shining star right now.
No offence to the dev team or anything but theres no way it takes 6 months to rebalance a battle system as simple as the one in FFXIV. As a programmer I can honestly write out an entire mathematical balanced system within about 5 hours that could be applied to this game tomorrow. And I have done a simple version of one in multiple other threads.
This dev team dropped the ball. My only hope is that they invested their resources heavily in things we have not seen yet (ex. hamlet battles) which will revolutionize the game.

[Cid]

As a programmer..

Wow, azury, you're a programmer, and

I'm an economist irl..

and also you

i run a marketing business..

Plus still manages to find time to make 750+ useful threads/posts in this forums none of which are useless whatsoever. You gotta know that you're my hero, ...how do you do it?

[Azurymber]

Wow, azury, you're a programmer, and



and also you



Plus still manages to find time to make 750+ useful threads/posts in this forums none of which are useless whatsoever. You gotta know that you're my hero, ...how do you do it?

I specialize in E-marketing, my business's focus is on e-marketing. E-marketing requires programming. If you want to sell your product, I help make a site, set up social media, create "apps" for your product, etc. Much of that require actionscript, java, etc. I've programmed games before as well, both for fun and for school.
I have an economics + politics specialist degree and do economic + political consulting, usually for small businesses who would like to expand into international markets.
My business is successful because I mix these fields which very few other people do (thus having few competitors + being able to work at my leisure)
So yes, I'm an economist, I run a E-marketing business, and I program for said business.

If you read through all of my past posts you would find ones where I actually wrote out code (which would essentially prove i know how to program)
and ones where I went into detailed economic analysis of the games market (essentially proving i know economics)
o_O

edit: and just so no one calls me on it. My "interest" in economics is manly neuro/behavioural economics which uses neuroscience experiments to better predict human behaviour relative to economics and trade and decision-making. So I know a lot about neuroscience, behavioural psychology and cultural anthropology.

And i like your sarcastic remark essentially saying my posts are useless but at least I -try- to make this game more enjoyable for others (see the 3000+ word solo guide and 7000+ word lore guide in my sig, as well as my past solo guide from release, my botany for profit guide, and my exploring Eorzea guide)

[AmyRae]

I'm betting if this was Bioware fixing up the game, it would be a shining star right now.
No offence to the dev team or anything but theres no way it takes 6 months to rebalance a battle system as simple as the one in FFXIV. As a programmer I can honestly write out an entire mathematical balanced system within about 5 hours that could be applied to this game tomorrow. And I have done a simple version of one in multiple other threads.
This dev team dropped the ball. My only hope is that they invested their resources heavily in things we have not seen yet (ex. hamlet battles) which will revolutionize the game.

Fact is, it's not as simple as writing just any old algorithm. However they proceed, they don't get another bite at the apple. Not only do they have to deal with the legacy of how FFXIV used to work, they also have to keep the game running and working during any changes while holding on to the few players still kicking around, and they have to end up making a world-class MMO in one shot which will attract enough players (in spite of all the bad press) to keep the game alive (and oh yeah, they better hurry up, because they're losing money by the day).

So it's not just a question of development, but of marketing as well. They have to rediscover what the global audience expects from their MMO in terms of basics (which FFXIV missed the boat on), and what would be attractive in terms of innovation (which FFXIV needs to attract new players).

Maybe you could write a battle system in five hours, but those five hours could be biggest mistake of your life if no one particularly cares for what you've created and the game's re-release flops from your inept system. You haven't done the hard work to investigate what works in terms of enjoyment and playability, nor have you considered the long term strategy (players will want to quest for advanced weapons and armor over the years, which you have to accommodate without breaking the game). Taking out your crayon, and saying "See? Battle algorithms are easy! What's the hold-up?" just shows ignorance to what's at stake here. You're not going to suffer the consequences of letting millions of dollars of development go up in smoke if you get it wrong, are you?

Sorry if this is harsh, but posing as an expert when you're really not is very upsetting, especially when you have the chutzpah to claim that solving FFXIV's many problems is easy. Anyone who has ever worked on a project even a fraction the size of this knows that it is not. Going back to the drawing board after a release is pretty much the worst-case scenario for any developer, and for a project as big as FFXIV, it's especially horrifying.

If you really did any substantial business application programming with Use-Case scenarios and UML outlines, you of all people would know that, or at least, could appreciate it. And if you really worked a real job, you wouldn't be begging for FFXIV to take up more of your time with more walking and slow airship rides.

It just doesn't add up. Where does an economist/psychologist/software engineer/marketing professional/game developer/neurologist/international political analyst/anthropologist find the time to do all that... and troll these forums?

[Azurymber]

Fact is, it's not as simple as writing just any old algorithm. However they proceed, they don't get another bite at the apple. Not only do they have to deal with the legacy of how FFXIV used to work, they also have to keep the game running and working during any changes while holding on to the few players still kicking around, and they have to end up making a world-class MMO in one shot which will attract enough players (in spite of all the bad press) to keep the game alive (and oh yeah, they better hurry up, because they're losing money by the day).

So it's not just a question of development, but of marketing as well. They have to rediscover what the global audience expects from their MMO in terms of basics (which FFXIV missed the boat on), and what would be attractive in terms of innovation (which FFXIV needs to attract new players).

Maybe you could write a battle system in five hours, but those five hours could be biggest mistake of your life if no one particularly cares for what you've created and the game's re-release flops from your inept system. You haven't done the hard work to investigate what works in terms of enjoyment and playability, nor have you considered the long term strategy (players will want to quest for advanced weapons and armor over the years, which you have to accommodate without breaking the game). Taking out your crayon, and saying "See? Battle algorithms are easy! What's the hold-up?" just shows ignorance to what's at stake here. You're not going to suffer the consequences of letting millions of dollars of development go up in smoke if you get it wrong, are you?

Sorry if this is harsh, but posing as an expert when you're really not is very upsetting, especially when you have the chutzpah to claim that solving FFXIV's many problems is easy. Anyone who has ever worked on a project even a fraction the size of this knows that it is not. Going back to the drawing board after a release is pretty much the worst-case scenario for any developer, and for a project as big as FFXIV, it's especially horrifying.

If you really did any substantial business application programming with Use-Case scenarios and UML outlines, you of all people would know that, or at least, could appreciate it. And if you really worked a real job, you wouldn't be begging for FFXIV to take up more of your time with more walking and slow airship rides.

It just doesn't add up. Where does an economist/psychologist/software engineer/marketing professional/game developer/neurologist/international political analyst/anthropologist find the time to do all that... and troll these forums?

I don't know how you can even claim i troll since im one of the few people posting guides to help people make more of the game.

and im not saying its easy to fix the game. but fixing a battle system is in no way difficult. It also can be fixed so that its quite easy to readjust it quickly in case things don't work.

everything your talking about is the design and not the code. Yes the design and planning takes time. 6 months though is pushing it. They could easily put together a system in a few weeks which can be -CHANGED- and then test it and change it for 2 months till they get it right. Instead they have spent 8-ish months planning, and -still- haven't implemented it.

If you seriously think changing a formula that involves attack, strength, mob defence and a few other variable takes 8 months you are kidding yourself.

FFXIs Damage Formulas

You can't tell me it takes a year to plan and pull that off.....